National Taiwan Normal University 國立台灣師範大學

[OneEye]

Note: if you're looking for information about the Mandarin Training Center, look here. This thread is about degree programs at NTNU.

I'm starting a Master's program at NTNU in a few weeks, assuming all my paperwork comes in on time from the TECO office in the US. I don't think there's another thread for NTNU like there are for a lot of universities in China, and since there are at least a few other people on this board coming to Taiwan to study Chinese, I figured I'd start this thread in case some of them decide to stay for degree programs or if others are considering degrees here.

I moved here two years ago to study Chinese at the Mandarin Training Center, which is part of NTNU, and spent 5 terms (15 months) studying there. This allowed me to become familiar with the campus and how things work, and I also met professors in my department and administrators both in my department and in the Office of International Affairs. I suspect this small bit of guanxi was helpful in the application process, but I can't be sure.

I'm going to use roddy's suggested format from the Universities in China forum.

Course and Funding

I'm doing an MA in the Department of Chinese Literature (國文系). It's just over NT$54,000 per semester, or US$1,800. When I first got notification that I had been accepted, they told me I had been awarded a Partial Tuition Waiver scholarship, which would have covered approximately half the tuition for the first year. All I had to do to get it was fill out a half-page form saying I wanted it when I turned in the application. I have no idea what the selection process is like. Anyway, a few weeks ago, they emailed me saying someone else had decided not to enroll and that my scholarship had been bumped up to the Freshman Scholarship (bad translation of 新生). That's NT$15,000 per month for the first year, so it more than covers tuition for a year. I'm not sure if it's extendable, or if there are other scholarship opportunities for the second year. I'll find out later.

There's also the Taiwan Scholarship through the Ministry of Education, which is 20,000 per month for the duration of the degree. I'm told it's easier for Canadians than for Americans to get, because there are fewer applicants per available scholarship. I don't know what it's like for others.

I had originally told the office that I was going to defer admission for a year. I don't know if they offered me the other person's scholarship in hopes that I would go ahead and start, or if I was simply next on the list. Anyway, after offering me the bigger scholarship, they said that if I still wanted to defer, I'd lose the scholarship. So here I am.

Arrival and registration

Like I said, I've been here for two years already and spent a huge portion of my time on or near the campus. This part was easy for me. The process of registering for classes was very easy. The Office of International Affairs has sent out a ton of emails about how to get your student ID number, how to open your online account (email address, online registration, etc.), how to select classes, etc. There was a PowerPoint presentation complete with detailed pictures and instructions in Chinese and English showing how to choose classes. The course selection system online is available in both Chinese and English.

I already have a resident card, so I didn't have to worry about all that. I went into the Office of International Affairs today (first day of registration for new grad students), and there were a few people there, but no line. I saw three different people (scholarship, resident card/insurance stuff, and outstanding paperwork). The first spoke to me in quite clear, fluent English, but then when they realized I spoke Chinese, everything else was handled in Chinese. All emails from the office have been in Chinese and English. The English is always understandable, if not always completely...English.

Fees can be paid by credit card, IF your credit card was issued by a Taiwanese bank. Otherwise it's cash or bank transfer. I suggest setting up an account at the post office first thing when you arrive, because it's easy to do as a foreigner and you can take care of tuition at a post office ATM. You can also pay in cash when you register, which is probably easiest of all.

Like I said, I'm still waiting on some paperwork from the TECO office. My undergrad transcripts and diploma, English originals and Chinese translations, all have to have a stamp from the TECO office on them. There was a screw-up and now they're not answering my emails, so we'll see what happens. The Office of International Affairs has been really accomodating about the whole thing. They're still letting me go ahead and register, and it seems like they're not too worried about when I give it to them, as long as I do.

Accommodation

They offer dorms, but I have no idea how much they are or what they're like. I live in an apartment on the other side of town.

Classes, Classrooms and Teachers

Like I said above, I'm doing an MA in the Chinese Literature department. This is not a "for foreigners" program. There are only a few foreigners in the department, and most of them are 華僑 from Southeast Asia. MA Students have to pick a field from amongst 經史、哲學、文學、教學／應用、語言文字學. I'm on the 經史學 track. I considered 語言文字學, but picked this option instead for no particular reason. You're required to take 16 hours in your field of specialization, out of a total of 30 (plus 6 hours for thesis writing), so there's not much difference one way or the other because I'll probably only take courses from those two fields.

I think many of the Taiwanese students take 15 hours per semester so they can finish the coursework in a year, then they write their thesis in their second year. There's no way I could do that, so it will be two years of coursework and one for thesis writing. I believe they give you up to two years for the thesis, but I'm not willing for it to take that long if I can help it.

This semester, I registered for a class called 漢字形體學研究 (Studies in the Morphology of Chinese Characters) and one called 經學史研討 (Studies in the History of the Confucian Classics). I thought I was supposed to take 高級華語, which is Advanced Chinese for foreigners and focuses on academic speech and writing, but the class selection system told me it isn't available for graduate students. I'm hoping that's accurate, or at least that they'll let me get away with not taking it, possibly with the stipulation that I need to pass the reading portion of the highest level TOCFL this fall (I passed the listening portion a few months ago). If I have to take that class, I might not take 經學史研討. Or I might take it and just suck it up.

I'm also auditing a consecutive interpretation class. My friend teaches in the translation/interpretation department, and I promised I'd audit because he was hurting for native English speakers. It won't require much preparation, it only meets on Friday mornings, and it should be really good for my Chinese. The professor is an American who has lived here for nearly 30 years and has unreal Chinese. As native-like as anyone else I've encountered here.

I audited a few classes last year, so I can comment on the classrooms, at least in my department. They're old and bare-bones, but reasonably comfortable. Capacity for maybe 20 students, but most graduate-level classes have fewer than 10. Huge chalkboard up front and a projector that the professor can (and usually does) connect his laptop to.

My department had some really big names just a few years ago. One passed away a little over a year ago, and one is now emeritus. Another only teaches one class per year now. Many of the other professors are well-respected, but just not big famous names. They tend to specialize in very narrow areas and not do too well outside of those areas. Interdisciplinarity doesn't seem common. For instance, one teacher who specialized in the history of Chinese thought tried to use Taiwanese Hokkien to test the Middle Chinese 反切 spellings from the 廣韻 and when they didn't work, told her students "See? Fanqie spellings aren't all that accurate or reliable." She essentially threw out a whole branch of philology because she didn't understand its most basic tenets. The younger professors tend to be less narrow in their knowledge, and many are even open to Western scholars' approaches. That's seriously saying something in a 國文 department in Taiwan. The Chinese departments at less well-known Taiwanese universities have the reputation of being the place students go if their English isn't good enough to handle other departments, because they can use only Chinese sources and ignore what the rest of the world is saying about their field. At 師大 and 台大 (and maybe some others), it seems like Chinese literature students are encouraged to use resources in English and Japanese if they can, and I believe one of the phonology professors at 師大 also teaches Japanese.

Campus and Environment

The campus is centrally located, walking distance to 古亭站, 東門站, and 台電大樓站 on the MRT. Lots of bus lines go there, too. The campus isn't nearly as nice or big as NTU/台大, but it's not bad at all. There are tons of restaurants, cafés, and convenience stores on campus or right outside it, and the Shida Night Market is a two minute walk away. The Taida/Gongguan (台大/公館) area is only a bit farther, and very quick if you grab a U-Bike (rental stations at nearly every intersection and MRT stop all over the city and free for the first half hour, which is more than enough). There's a post office on campus, print shops on campus and nearby, free Wi-Fi all over campus for students (and in many coffee shops nearby), a supermarket down the street, tons of academic book shops, calligraphy supply stores, art shops, antique shops...you name it.

The student lounge is small, but nice and comfortable. The air conditioner was almost too cold in the lounge today, which is unheard of in Taipei in August. They have cheap drinks (NT$10/US$0.33 for an iced tea, NT$60/US$2 for a cappuccino) and desserts and probably some other stuff. I didn't check the menu in-depth. I doubt the coffee is very good, but if you're looking for good coffee, there are some shops nearby that have very good coffee. Coffee geek quality coffee in some cases. The best brew in the area (probably in the whole city) is the siphon-brewed coffee at Drop Coffee (渧咖啡) near Taida. It's not cheap at NT$180/US$6 for a cup of black coffee (albeit excellent, single-origin, roasted in house black coffee), but I've been told it's half-price if you get it to go. Wilbeck Cafe near 古亭站 has very good espresso drinks, and they're cheap at NT$60/US$2 for a latte. They also sell whole beans. Unfortunately, the indoor seating at Wilbeck is open-air, which means hot in the summer and humid year-round, so I only get coffee to go there. If you want good, cheap coffee, air conditioned indoor seating, and free Wi-Fi (the Holy Grail), the Cama Café inside the Chunghwa Telecom building on 麗水街 nearby is your best bet. Their espresso isn't quite as good as Wilbeck, but it's close. There are Cama locations all over Taipei (and Taiwan), but this is the only one I've seen with a real indoor seating area. There are tons of other cafés in the area with comfortable seating, free Wi-Fi, good coffee, air conditioning, and even good music, but they tend to be pricey. They're good if you need to sit for hours though, because the staff generally won't bother you except to refill your water.

I didn't mean to write that much about coffee. It goes hand in hand with studying for me though, so there it is. There are a few decent places nearby to get a beer or other drink, and Belgian beer is very popular (and generally more affordable than in the US) here. Many of the coffee shops also have a fridge full of Belgian and other European beers if you'd prefer that instead. One place has the occasional "buy one bottle of beer, get one free" deal on Fridays.

As far as the convenience of meeting Taiwanese students, just sit down somewhere on campus and look friendly. Someone is bound to target you for English speaking practice. The trick is finding someone who doesn't mind if you'd prefer to only speak Chinese. They are out there, but foreigners at NTNU tend to be seen as opportunities for English improvement more than potential friends. This is partly due to the reputation Shida has as "the school foreigners go to" because of the MTC, which at any given time has 1500-2000 students, mostly at low levels of Chinese proficiency.

Cost of Living and Budgeting

Taipei can be as cheap or expensive as you want. You can get a good, filling, reasonably balanced meal for NT$40, or you can go spend thousands at a high-end sushi or steak place. I usually spend around NT$100/US$3.33 for my lunch near the campus. Breakfast is a bit less, dinner about the same or maybe a bit more. I go to Western places sometimes. My wife gets a decent salary as a teacher and I do fairly well as a translator (less so now that I'm starting school). Before I was making money steadily as a translator, we were making about NT$60,000 between the two of us per month (not including the free apartment) and were able to live pretty comfortably on that. We still live on about the same amount, putting most of what I make into savings.

We live in an apartment in Nangang District (南港區), which is a not-insignificant commute away, but like I said, the place is rent-free courtesy of my wife's school. It's a three-bedroom place, no frills but comfortable (it's "public housing"/國宅). Nangang is kind of on the edge of Taipei City. It would probably go for about NT$30,000/US$1000 per month. Much cheaper places can be had, and so can much more expensive places. I know people living in studio apartments near campus who spend around NT$6000/US$200 per month on rent, and I've seen places on craigslist go for six figures. It all depends on what you're willing to put up with. Parts of New Taipei City are affordable and quite nice, if you're OK with a longer commute. If you ride a scooter, it's not bad. I prefer not to take my life in my own hands every day, but some people like it.

This doesn't fit in any of the categories above, but I'm not even sure if I'm going to finish the degree. The professor I'm hoping to do my PhD under said I should go to Japan to study Japanese before I start my PhD if I can, even if it means skipping the MA (and it would mean that...I don't have forever). It will be another year before I can move to Japan because my wife is on contract, and even then it depends on whether she finds a job there or not (I can telecommute for my translation job, so no problem there). That's partially why I was deferring in the first place, but I couldn't really turn down the scholarship they offered me. But this way, if we go to Japan I'll at least have a year of graduate courses on my transcript when I apply for my PhD, as well as papers in the field that I can use for my writing sample. If we end up not going to Japan, we can stay here another year and I'll be able to finish my MA coursework, then I can write my thesis the following year from wherever we end up living then (whether Japan or back in the US for me to start my PhD). We'll see what happens.

OK, that's that. Maybe this will be useful for future students. If you have any questions, ask away! I'll do my best to answer them if I can.

[OneEye]

By the way, if you're an American coming here to study, make SURE you find out which is the right TECO office in the US to send your documents for authentication. I sent everything to Miami because I'm a Florida resident and they've always handled everything for me. I emailed them and told them what I needed to get authenticated, and they replied with detailed instructions. After I sent everything in (undergrad diploma and transcripts) and had already returned to Taiwan, they told me they can't authenticate any of it because my college was out of state. So they sent it all to the Boston office (where my college is). Now the Boston office says they can't do it because my money order was made out to the Miami office (of course), and all the documents were notarized in Florida so they wouldn't be able to do it anyway. It looks like I'm going to have to pay a second time, but I don't know how to get around the notarization issue. I'm hoping they'll let me resubmit un-notarized copies of everything and just get them notarized in Taiwan, but we'll see.

I can't be the only person to ever go to college out of state and then move to Taiwan, so I'm sure this has happened before. If the Miami office had gotten their stuff together in the first place and told me they couldn't do it (I told them up front which college it was and where it was located), I wouldn't be in this situation. The whole process was supposed to take five days. It's now been well over a month, with no end in sight. It's amazing that this close to the beginning of the semester, I'm still not even sure if I'll be able to start or not.

Of course, this is all TECO's fault and has nothing to do with NTNU. Fortunately as I said earlier, the people in the office at NTNU have been very accommodating so far, but I'm just afraid their patience won't last much longer. I've signed a slip of paper that says I have to turn everything in by September 10 or I can't enroll. My impression is that the date is flexible despite the wording on the document (most things are flexible here), but who knows.

[Meng Lelan]

Does NTNU still have a Special Ed Department with Deaf Education and Vision Impaired Education? When I was doing my master's in Illinois decades ago, I took class with a professor from Taiwan who graduated from NTNU.

[OneEye]

Yes, they do. I believe they're located in the same building as the MTC, or at least they do a lot of their blind awareness training outside that building.

[Meng Lelan]

You mean Orientation and Mobility training with the canes? That's the stuff I'm training on here now.

[OneEye]

Yeah, lots of people walking around with white canes and blind folds. It must be a popular program, there always seems to be a good number of participants when they do that.

[Meng Lelan]

Awesome. Someday I will be teaching blind rehab at NTNU and you will be teaching Chinese in Texas.

[Meng Lelan]

漢字形體學研究 is using what textbook? And how can the tuition be that low? Is a master's from NTNU widely accepted if one applies to do a doctorate in Chinese Language and Literature in the States?

[OneEye]

Tuition is just low in Taiwan. It's about the same at 台大, which is ranked as one of the top 100 universities in the world. Tuition in the US is just insane.

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be accepted. It's a rigorous program and some of the top scholars in the field teach/have taught in my department. I'll pretty much only be in class with native speakers, and I'll get training that's hard to come by otherwise (for instance, training in palaeography, which is severely lacking in the US). It will prove to admissions committees that my Chinese is good enough to handle PhD-level research, which I've been told is a major problem among PhD students even at the best universities. Why wouldn't it be accepted?

The 漢字形體學研究 class doesn't have one main textbook, but I know some of the main books we'll be using are 劉釗《古文字構形學》，杜忠誥《說文篆文訛形釋例》，王筠《說文釋例》，何琳儀《戰國文字通論》, along with all the standard reference books for pre-Qin script like 《金文編》，《甲骨文編》，《戰國文字編》, etc. And of course,《說文解字注》. I've got several other books on the subject that I'm sure I'll use as well.

[Meng Lelan]

Thanks for your immensely helpful responses. Yes, I was looking at the Valparaiso masters program but wasn't feeling fun about a program conducted mostly in English, and if there is any Chinese to read it's always in simplified which is not fun for me to read at all. So I was looking into schools in Taiwan but had no idea the tuition was that low. I assume NTNU also has doctoral programs in Chinese Language and Literature as well. I might get my masters here in the US then later on go to Taiwan for a PhD but this is just dreaming for now I guess. What may be a real coincidence is a well known professor of blind orientation and mobility is at NTNU teaching and may be coming to a world conference here in San Antonio July 2014 and the host conference may ask me to host her in my house. We'll see if she does come. I hope so.

[OneEye]

Yes, they have a PhD program too. Pretty intense, from what I've been told. There's actually a lot of assigned reading in simplified, believe it or not. Sometimes you can find 繁體 versions of the mainland books (and some mainland books are printed in 繁體 anyway), but not always.

As an update, the Boston TECO office has authenticated everything and sent it back to me. Should be here early next week. One of the representatives called me here in Taiwan to work everything out, and was even nice enough to scan everything and email it to me so I could send it to the Office of International Affairs before the originals get here. The OIA staff have been great throughout this entire process.

I had orientation and registration on Monday. That is, checking in, tuition payment, etc., not course registration, which I had already done. It was a fairly painless process. They had lots of student workers there and everything seemed pretty efficient. Most of them spoke at least some English for those who needed it (some programs here are mostly in English and thus require only minimal ability in Chinese), though some of them were a little too eager to show off their remedial English to a white face, which was generally more irritating than helpful. The scholarship people sent me to the Chinese department to get some documents stamped, and while I was there, they gave me a big packet of information about coursework and graduation requirements. They also invited me to an optional departmental orientation, which I just remembered is happening right now and I'm on the other side of town. Oh well.

So at this point everything is taken care of. I start Monday. There's a two-week add/drop period, so I'll try out several classes and then finalize my course selections. Right now I'm looking at 2 undergrad classes and two graduate classes, for a total of 10 hours. Bring on the pain.

[OneEye]

OK, so I'm now more or less settled into the swing of things. I found out that I never actually selected which field to focus on (see above), so I ended up choosing 語言文字 after all. Also, the department is requiring me to take some undergrad courses, so I chose a 文字學 class this semester. It conflicted with the 經學史 class I had chosen, so I dropped that one. Instead, I'm taking 出土文獻思想專題研究. I'm still taking 漢字形體學研究, and I ended up being able to take the interpretation class for credit rather than auditing, so that's three grad classes (only two in my department) and one undergrad.

For the two undergrad classes in my department, the grade is mostly based on my term paper. There will be two tests in the 漢字形體學研究 class (one on ability to recognize 簡體字, one on theory and methodology), but they don't count for much. The undergrad 文字學 class is just the opposite, and the grade rests almost entirely on exams. We're also required to be able to read and write Small Seal script (小篆) and copy a fairly significant portion of the 說文解字 by hand into our workbooks. There's a lot of memorization involved, but it looks like I'll learn some very useful skills in this class. For the interpretation class, as long as I show up and do the homework, I'll get an A, so I'm not too worried about it.

I'm finally all squared away as far as paperwork, and the add-drop period ended today, so now I can settle into my rhythm for the semester. I have several books that I plan on reading cover-to-cover and a few which I'll be reading parts of, as well as several dozen papers that I may be using for the two papers I'll be writing. I've selected fairly ambitious topics that ought to stretch me quite a bit, so I should learn a lot from doing these papers. We have a 4 day weekend due to 中秋節, and Monday I'll really be starting the semester in earnest.

[Meng Lelan]

>>>We're also required to be able to read and write Small Seal script (小篆)

So how will you all learn that...?

[OneEye]

By copying the 540 部首 (in both 小篆 and 楷書) over and over into our workbooks. Interestingly, the guy who teaches the 漢字形體學研究 course also encouraged us to start copying the 說文 seal forms, and I think a few of the students in that class have taken him up on it.

[Meng Lelan]

That's awesome. I don't think there is a class like that anywhere in the US. And workbooks??? You make your own workbook or is that bought at the school bookstore?

[OneEye]

The professor made the workbooks and sold them to us during the first class. Here's a sample he gave us to consult.

文字學作業範例_20120809.pdf

[Meng Lelan]

The workbook is awesome. I wish the professor would sell a copy to me. As far as I know there would not be any kind of class or workbook like that in the US probably not even at UT Austin. The teaching and resources at NTNU seems stellar judging by your posts but I assume they have classes only in the fall and spring.

[xh207hi]

I wonder, is there anybody who studies/-ed M.A. in Teaching Chinese as a Second Language at NTNU here? Any opinions?

[jobm]

You could visit hackingchinese.com. The author of the site finished his MA on teaching Chinese at NTNU.