[purepearl]

Poetry is a perfectly integrated unity inextricably embedded in a culture. A lot of educated Chinese recite classic Chinese poems; these poems are alive and living among these people.

If such poems are translated into English, is the English version of poems recited, either by the Chinese people or the English readers?

If you do recite such poems, can you tell me how do you feel about the intensity and beauty of such translations?

[anonymoose]

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Poetry is a perfectly integrated unity inextricably embedded in a culture.

First of all, what's this in English?

I think reciting poetry is much more a Chinese thing than a western (or at least English) thing. Chinese children have to learn lots of poems off by heart at school, but as far as I recall, I was only supposed to learn one at school, and I don't think I even did bother to learn it. So apart from people with special interest, I don't think many westerners do recite poetry.

Maybe others will have a different viewpoint...

[gato]

It might be a traditional culture things. Many Muslim children recite the Koran (without necessarily understanding it because classical Arabic is very difficult from vernacular Arabic).

As for Chinese, because classical/literary written Chinese is so different from spoken Chinese, the teaching of written Chinese emphasize memorization. Once you have memorized a few hundred passages of classical/literary Chinese, it becomes almost natural to you (and you can plagiarize without having to look it up).

[purepearl]

I don't think that reciting poems is culturally-related. Once you find a poem inspiring and empowering, you will recite it, and during this process, you may intensify the emotional value of the poem by adding your own experience and memories. I believe this is true of all cultures. It does not have to be necessarily a Chinese phenomenon.

Also I don't believe reciting poems is a way of preparing people for plagiarism. When a poem is never read or memorized or quoted, it is dead. The more often a poem is quoted, the more alive it is in people's mind.

Poem reciting is empowering, and also a natural result of one's being fascinated with it.

[anonymoose]

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Poem reciting is ... a natural result of one's being fascinated with it.

Quite. My point is that only a small minority of people (in the UK at least) fit into this category.

[md1101]

i know that in the past students had to memorise and recite poems in Australia (past teachers and me old man being my sources) but the curriculum doesn't tend to focus so much on that any more. its now more about analysis and critical reviews/thinking than rote memorising. mind you if you analyse a poem enough times you tend to memorise it. though not always perfectly.

[gato]

Yes, rote memorization was a common way of teaching in the UK and US, too, once up on a time. If you go back just a hundred, students would still be memorizing their Latin conjugations and Ciceros, and a few sonnets, too.

Chinese students today are still required to memorize essays, thought of as a way to improve their writing perhaps. This is just the way reading and writing are taught in China, unfortunately.

[purepearl]

Rote memorization used to be a notorious vice in school education, to be sure. But what I am driving at is: Do you, as a common reader, recite some poems as a hobby or self-cultivation? In my impression, a lot of Chinese students recite and even copy the classic poetic lines on the desk, wall, their notebooks, or even test papers. The more stressful or bored they feel, they may turn to these poetic lines for spiritual power or self-entertainment.

What I am more interested in is: whether there are any English readers who are so fascinated with Chinese poetry that they may memorize a few such poetic lines, and recite them as a source of inspiration or spiritual strength.

Are there any such readers?

Do you like these lines,

"Amidst the flowers a jug of wine,
I pour alone lacking companionship;
So raising the cup I invite the Moon,
Then turn to my shadow, which makes three of us."

And do you ever find hope in the following line:

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

[student]

When growing up (and sometimes since) I have memorized many English language poems (and a few in Hungarian).

When I started to study Chinese poetry, I first read English translations, but as I read different translations of the same poem, I came to understand how imperfect any of the translations are. So now I am memorizing the poems in Chinese!

[purepearl]

Thank you, Student. It IS much more inspiring to recite poems in their original language, and more in accordance with the aesthetic law.

Can I know what poems do you like best?

[student]

The ones I have been memorizing include:

王維, 鹿柴

李涉, 登山

柳宗元, 江雪

张 继 , 枫 桥 夜 泊

杜甫, 望岳

白居易, 夜雪

and one that is perhaps not so well known but that amuses me:

杜甫, 早秋苦热，堆案相仍

[purepearl]

Most of the poems you mentioned are familiar to me, except for a few: 李涉的《登山》, 白居易的《夜雪》，杜甫的“早秋苦热，堆案相仍”. Can you introduce them to me, please? I am very interested in them.

For my reading, I like 李白，张九龄，王维 in particular, such as 李白的《将进酒》，张九龄的《感遇十二首》，and 王维的禅诗，Zen poems.

[student]

登山

李涉

终日昏昏醉梦间，
忽闻春尽强登山。
因过竹院逢僧话，
又得浮生半日闲。

*******************

夜雪

白居易

已讶衾枕冷
复见窗户明
夜深知雪重
时闻折竹声

*******************
早秋苦热，堆案相仍

杜甫

七月六日苦炎热，
对食暂餐还不能。
每愁夜中自足蝎，
况乃秋后转多蝇。
束带发狂欲大叫，
簿书何急来相仍。
南望青松架短壑，
安得赤脚蹋层冰。

There are many times when I feel that the last poem perfectly captures my feelings!

[purepearl]

Thank you, Student. The poems are fantastic! I can really imagine the climate in which you live. I used to live in the North of China, which is also seasonally distinct, with heavy snow in winter and sweltering heat in summer. Since I left home and came to study and work in Kunming, I have always missed the pleasant surprise when I felt the first soft spring breeze and saw the tender green sprouts and grasses under the snow.

[purepearl]

I like in particular frontier poems, those descrbing the hard and heroic life of soldiers.

Such as,

白日登山望烽火
黄昏饮马傍交河


and,

饮马渡秋水，
水寒风似刀

and,

风劲角弓鸣
将军猎渭城
草低鹰眼疾
雪尽马蹄轻
忽过新丰市
还归细柳营
回看射雕处
千里暮云平

How I wish that I become one of the brave soldiers defending the country and living a meaningful life!