[Hero Doug]

I'm just wondering if anyone has come across this before.

My wife was told by her local government that in order for us to obtain a child license to get a birth certificate for our child I have to prove that she is my first wife, and that this is my first child, and that I haven't adopted any children before.

My consulate has told me that they don't provide this service. So I'm wondering, what's a fellow to do?

[anonymoose]

Go to Hong Kong and have the child there.

[BrandeX]

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Foreigners Held To One Child Policy

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My wife was told by her local government...

By these statements it sounds like your wife is in fact Chinese and not a foreigner, and therefore bound by the one child policy. Whoever you are (the husband foreign or otherwise) is irrelevant. I am in that similar situation. If you are in fact both foreign passport holders/citizenship then it does seem a bit unusual, but I also would second going to HK where they have better facilities if nothing else.

[kdavid]

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My wife was told by her local government that in order for us to obtain a child license to get a birth certificate for our child I have to prove that she is my first wife, and that this is my first child, and that I haven't adopted any children before.

I haven't heard of this before. This, it seems, like many things in China, differs from city to city. My wife (Chinese) and I (American) just had a child in August. We haven't had any problems *knock on wood* regarding the government yet.

In fact, everywhere we go, people (doctors, officials, etc.) keep telling us to have another child. So, it seems, here in Harbin, we won't have issues having a second child.

Anyway, as soon as it gets warmer outside, we're taking my son to register him as an American. Once we do that, the Chinese government has no say in how many children either me or my wife can have, as our children won't be Chinese.

[fanglu]

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Anyway, as soon as it gets warmer outside, we're taking my son to register him as an American. Once we do that, the Chinese government has no say in how many children either me or my wife can have, as our children won't be Chinese.

I wouldn't necessarily bet on this unless both of you are not Chinese citizens. At the very least you could have the problems the op talked about.

Chinese nationality law states that a child born in China to at least one chinese parent is Chinese. So, its logical that the same rules would apply to his child getting a birth certificate as would to a child who had two chinese parents as the relevent government bodies will assume the child is Chinese until proven otherwise.

[anonymoose]

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Chinese nationality law states that a child born in China to at least one chinese parent is Chinese.

The one-child policy doesn't apply to ethnic minorities (or at least not all of them), so being Chinese doesn't necessarily mean the policy will apply.

How this works in practice when one parent is not Chinese is another issue. But if the Chinese parent is not Han, then this shouldn't even come into question.

[kdavid]

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I wouldn't necessarily bet on this unless both of you are not Chinese citizens. At the very least you could have the problems the op talked about.

True, and it's always better to be safe than sorry. If I were the OP, I'd do a bit more digging. More often than not, laws aren't fully understood by the "officials" you speak with, and can be bent in "special circumstances".

As I mentioned above, and according to Wikipedia, the rules apply differently in different regions.

I heard from a colleague that another individual living here in Harbin renounced the Chinese citizenship of his newborn daughter. I'm not quite sure why he did this, but he later regretted it as it caused a heap of visa problems seeing how he has no intention of leaving China for the time being. However, if you're only here temporarily, or don't mind renewing your child's visa every three months, you can do that.

I've also heard of many mixed couples going to developed cities such as Beijing and paying big bucks for the nice private hospitals they have there. They'd probably issue you a birth certificate without all that paperwork you mentioned.

Tell your wife to get on QQ and join some of the "mixed blood" (混血儿) groups. There are tons of moms on there that can help give you two some insight on what to do.

[Erbse]

I can hardly imagine, that a Chinese can tell me, non-Chinese, how many kids I'm allowed to have. No matter if my wife is Chinese or not.

[fanglu]

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I can hardly imagine, that a Chinese can tell me, non-Chinese, how many kids I'm allowed to have. No matter if my wife is Chinese or not.

But the issue is not really them telling you how many children you can have, it's whether they will issue you a birth certificate and/or allow the child to be added to a hukou. In those matters you would expect Chinese law in China to appy regardless of whether the parents are Chinese or not.

[Erbse]

Why would my kid need a hukou?

[BrandeX]

It doesn't technically, and my daughter never had one either. However the gov office was still on the phone calling my wife after the delivery telling her she needs to have her uterus clamped to comply with the one child law.

[gougou]

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I heard from a colleague that another individual living here in Harbin renounced the Chinese citizenship of his newborn daughter.

That's exactly what you will be doing once you register your child as American. China does not allow dual nationality.

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I can hardly imagine, that a Chinese can tell me, non-Chinese, how many kids I'm allowed to have. No matter if my wife is Chinese or not.

It's enough if they tell your wife...

[kdavid]

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I heard from a colleague that another individual living here in Harbin renounced the Chinese citizenship of his newborn daughter.

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That's exactly what you will be doing once you register your child as American. China does not allow dual nationality.

I've contacted the American embassy about this. They told me that the Chinese will not recognize a child's American citizenship, even if he/she has an American passport. In most cases, they wait until the child is old enough to make their own decision, which is either 18 or 21, I don't remember.

I'll be registering my son as an American soon. We'll then go get his Chinese passport. Having two passports makes travel much easier. I'll report back on this in a few months.

This post has been edited by kdavid: 13 January 2010 - 12:18 PM

[gato]

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Having two passports makes travel much easier.

Entering mainland China with a Chinese passport and exiting with a US passport might be a problem because you don't have a Chinese visa nor an entering stamp on the US passport.

Exiting with a Chinese passport might be a problem, too, because you don't have a visa to go to your destination.

[Hero Doug]

Yes, my wife is Chinese and unfortunately she is from a small town, so the officials there are, annoying, to say the least.

The problem is them requiring me to prove that this is my first wife/child. I understand that we're in their country and my wife (and myself I suppose) is bound by their laws, but my consulate said that they don't provide this kind of service; so it's created a sticky situation.

kdavid said:

I've also heard of many mixed couples going to developed cities such as Beijing and paying big bucks for the nice private hospitals they have there. They'd probably issue you a birth certificate without all that paperwork you mentioned.

This option just came up this morning and it's looking like the route we're going to take. It's a lot of money, but it should solve many of the problems with one foul swoop.

I read (and need to confirm) that provided if I have my childs temporary passport and birth certificate that I'll be able to fly to Canada and do all the documentation there properly. I have read (on the government website) that I can get the temporary passport if I have his/her birth certificate and our marriage documents.

kdavid said:

I've contacted the American embassy about this. They told me that the Chinese will not recognize a child's American citizenship, even if he/she has an American passport. In most cases, they wait until the child is old enough to make their own decision, which is either 18 or 21, I don't remember.

This creates a unique situation of dual citizenship where it shouldn't be allowed in the first place. They can't after all renounce his American citizenship on his behalf.

kdavid said:

I heard from a colleague that another individual living here in Harbin renounced the Chinese citizenship of his newborn daughter. I'm not quite sure why he did this, but he later regretted it as it caused a heap of visa problems seeing how he has no intention of leaving China for the time being. However, if you're only here temporarily, or don't mind renewing your child's visa every three months, you can do that.

It may cause visa problems, but would it help him in avoiding other problems related ti mixing and matching citizenship? I really like the idea of the local ignorant official having little to no power over my child.

[kdavid]

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This creates a unique situation of dual citizenship where it shouldn't be allowed in the first place. They can't after all renounce his American citizenship on his behalf.

I was told by a government official that even though this is the law, they'll over look it. 形同虚设。I'm still being overly cautious and paranoid about the whole situation though..

Good luck with this adventure. Please be sure to update your story once it's all said and done. I'm sure others will benefit from hearing your story.

[BrandeX]

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I'll be registering my son as an American soon. We'll then go get his Chinese passport. Having two passports makes travel much easier. I'll report back on this in a few months.

You can't have both.

[jbradfor]

@Hero Doug

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This option just came up this morning and it's looking like the route we're going to take. It's a lot of money, but it should solve many of the problems with one foul swoop.

I hope that was a just a typo and not a Freudian slip at how feel about this whole pregnancy thing!

[Meng Lelan]

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Good luck with this adventure. Please be sure to update your story once it's all said and done. I'm sure others will benefit from hearing your story.

This beats any suspense story I've ever read, I'm going to follow your story with keen interest. When is she due?

[aroberts42]

My fiancee and I are both American moving to China and we hope to adopt in a couple of years while we are living there. I know there are not too many issues with Americans living in America adopting from China (even multiple times) but are there issues with American's adopting if we live in China? What if we want to adopt more than one? Would we have to live by the one child policy?

And as a side note, I thought that by law the one child act had been repealed as it was only supposed to last for one generation. It is still in effect in the minds of some and in the culture, but legally can't even Chinese people have as many children as they want now?