[Meng Lelan]

同学们！ Time for our February story of the month - 孔乙己 by 鲁迅.

The text with several explanatory footnotes can be found on this website:

http://www.xys.org/x...an/kongyiji.txt

Reason for selecting this story - if you have studied/are studying/will study NPCR Volume 4, there is a discussion of this short story 孔乙己. It would be a good idea to read 孔乙己either before or after you do NPCR Volume 4.

As you read, note how dress defines one class from another. How 孔乙己 defines/defends his stealing books. What 孔乙己 used to do in the past and what he is doing at the time of the story. Why is he being laughed at several points in the story.

Have fun.

[gato]

xyz.org is banned in China.

Here's another site that has the story. This story is really short.
http://www.tianyaboo...uxun/lh/006.htm
孔乙己

[Meng Lelan]

gato, I tried that one on tianya - all those popup ads were insane - does baidu have a book or short story search feature? unless baidu is banned too by now, like all else.

[gato]

Wikisource also has a copy:
http://zh.wikisource...%B9%99%E5%B7%B1

[Meng Lelan]

oh my goodness! wiki isn't banned! thanks.

[trien27]

“上大人 孔乙己 化三千 七十士 尔小生 八九子 佳作仁 可知礼”。

Explanation: “孔乙己”三个字是什么意思？

[knadolny]

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孔乙己 by 鲁迅.

Meng Lelan, you picked one of my favorite stories! I actually just wrote a post about Lu Xun. It should be posted on Danwei.org soon, but if you want a sneak preview then you can see it on my website. I'll update with the link to Danwei.org when it is up.

Kong Yiji was my first short story in original Chinese and inspired me to tackle Lu Xun's Nahan which resulted in the book that you see on my website. So this story has special significance to me.

Knowing the history of the China Lu Xun lived in is key to understanding his stories. Since I just wrote a long article on it, I'll excerpt some here and reference you to my website for the rest. I have a section just on Kong Yiji so it should be especially useful.


Reading the Father of Modern Chinese Literature - Lu Xun

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To read foreign literature in the original language is the ultimate goal for many foreign language students. Requiring knowledge of a few thousands of characters for reading Chinese literature, the challenge is particularly immense for students of Chinese. Lu Xun is China’s most famous author and is frequently referred to as the “father” of modern Chinese literature. To read Lu Xun is to experience living in China during the decline of the Qing dynasty and the rise of the Republic of China. His characters are poignant, his style is sarcastic, and his stories are unforgettable. While his stories are laced with difficult Chinese phrases, allusions to Chinese Classics, and historical references, his stories are too important not to read. With a little help and a historical introduction, students of Chinese can enjoy his stories and have the satisfaction of reading one of the world’s greatest authors in the original language. In this article, I will be exploring my experience with reading Lu Xun in the original Chinese and hopefully will inspire you to do the same.

[skylee]

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To read foreign literature in the original language is the ultimate goal for many foreign language students. Requiring knowledge of a few thousands of characters for reading Chinese literature, the challenge is particularly immense for students of Chinese. Lu Xun is China’s most famous author and is frequently referred to as the “father” of modern Chinese literature. To read Lu Xun is to experience living in China during the decline of the Qing dynasty and the rise of the Republic of China.

I find the level of excitement a bit amusing. Forgive me.

[Meng Lelan]

Reading this short story - the part where the narrator is asked if he knows how to write the character for one of the snacks they serve - has me wondering about the education system during the Qing. Did many people receive a basic education in reading and writing? Or limited to those who could afford a basic education in literacy?

[chrix]

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Coincidentally, America and Europe were first introduced to the civil service examination in the mid 1700s by China. The civil service exams, such as the Foreign Service Exam, have their roots based on this Chinese system. Luckily for today’s candidates however, these present exams do not dwell on obscure passages of the Chinese classics.

I don't know about America, but Prussia was exposed to this in the 1600s century already. Samuel Freiherr von Pufendorf wrote about this in 1672 in "De Jure Naturae et Gentium", and instigated the first Chinese-style civil examinations in European history in 1693.


ALSO: German most certainly does NOT have Latin roots! Like English it is a Germanic language. It has borrowed lots of words from Latin, but is not a Romance language... You should change your analogy to a Romance language of your choice, like French, Italian, Spanish, Romanian..

This post has been edited by chrix: 03 February 2010 - 03:23 AM

[renzhe]

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I find the level of excitement a bit amusing. Forgive me.

Maybe, but I can certainly relate to it.

Reading Kafka and Goethe in original was so much better than reading them in translation, and the same goes for Gabriel Garcia Marquez.

Reading literature is one of the most satisfying results of learning a language.

[chrix]

Here's a vocab list (the words are in no particular order):

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蘸 zhàn, to dip in (ink, sauce etc)
茴香豆 huí xiāng dòu, Beans flavored with aniseed
曲尺形 qū chǐ xíng, Carpenter's square-shaped
闊綽 kuò chuò 阔绰, ostentatious ㊁ extravagant ㊂ liberal with money
短衣幫 duǎn yī bāng 短衣帮, "labouring masses", 旧时劳动人民穿短衣,故短衣帮指劳动人民
掌櫃 zhǎng guì 掌柜, shopkeeper
侍候 shì hòu, serve, wait upon
纏夾 chán jiā 缠夹, to annoy ㊁ to bother ㊂ to harass
罈子 tánzi 坛子, jug (earthenware with a big belly and a small opening)
舀 yǎo, to scoop
兼督 jiān dū, surely this is a typo for 監督？
羼水 chàn shuǐ, to mix with water (wine), to adulterate
薦頭 jiàn tou 荐头, employment agent (arch.), job broker
聲氣 shēng qì 声气, here in the sense of "tone"
皺紋 zhòu wén 皱纹, wrinkle
傷疤 shāng bā 伤疤, scar
綻 zhàn 绽, to burst open, to split at the seam
青筋 qīng jīn, veins, blue veins
營生 yíng shēng 营生, to earn a living, a livelihood
討飯 tǎo fàn 讨饭, to ask for food, to beg
鈔書 chāo shū 钞书, copy books
拖欠 tuō qiàn, in arrears ㊁ behind in payments ㊂ to default on one's debts
夥計 huǒ jì 伙计, here: not "partner", but rather "fellow" in the sense of "busboy"
惋惜 wǎn xī, to feel sorry for a person over sth that should have happened
發昏 fā hūn 发昏, to faint, here: go crazy
服辯 fú biàn 服辩, confession, 認罪狀、悔過書。
頹唐 tuí táng 颓唐, dispirited, depressed.

This bit puzzled me a bit:

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掌櫃是一副兇臉孔，主顧也沒有好聲氣，教人活潑不得

what exactly does "活潑" mean here? I guess as this person has translated it "slack off" is fine, but I was wondering if this was a common usage of the term (maybe in Lu Xun's day).

[chrix]

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“上大人 孔乙己 化三千 七十士 尔小生 八九子 佳作仁 可知礼”。

Explanation: “孔乙己”三个字是什么意思？

Your link is funny, but doesn't really get to the heart of the matter either, have a look at this explanation from a more scholarly source:

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“孔乙己”是从“上大人孔乙己”截取下来的。这六个字是“上古大人孔氏一人而已”的缩写，“已”改作“己”，因此成了一句叫人“半懂不懂的话”。用“孔乙己”作为满口之乎者也、叫人半懂不懂的人物的雅号，并作为小说的题目，既切合人物身分，又是对培养孔乙己式人物的封建教育制度的蔑视和讽刺，巧妙地暗示了小说批判的对象。因此，这个题目既表现了人物性格，又突出了文章的中心。

[knadolny]

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I don't know about America, but Prussia was exposed to this in the 1600s century already. Samuel Freiherr von Pufendorf wrote about this in 1672 in "De Jure Naturae et Gentium", and instigated the first Chinese-style civil examinations in European history in 1693.


ALSO: German most certainly does NOT have Latin roots! Like English it is a Germanic language. It has borrowed lots of words from Latin, but is not a Romance language... You should change your analogy to a Romance language of your choice, like French, Italian, Spanish, Romanian..

Thanks for the constructive feedback. Yes I know German is not a Romance language. A lapse in my memory during the writing. Thanks for the catch.

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Maybe, but I can certainly relate to it.

Thanks. Yeah a lot of people would say I get excited about it. Not such a bad thing I suppose or else I wouldn't have gotten through his works.

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掌櫃是一副兇臉孔，主顧也沒有好聲氣，教人活潑不得

For those of us who read simplified.
掌柜是一副 凶脸孔 ，主顾也没有好声气，教人活泼 不得

I define 活潑 as below.
活泼 – huópō – lively; vivacious; vivid

活潑不得 would have the meaning of not being able to get rowdy and lively. Or as that other guys says can't slack off.

只有孔乙己到店，才可以笑几声，所以至今还记得
Once Kong Yiji comes, everyone makes fun of him and laughs so he can join in the fun.

[chrix]

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I define 活潑 as below.
活泼 – huópō – lively; vivacious; vivid

活潑不得 would have the meaning of not being able to get rowdy and lively. Or as that other guys says can't slack off.

I know that 活潑 means "lively". I just find this construction weird in this particular context, and when you google for it, most of the hits seem to be for Lu Xun's story, so I was wondering how widespread this kind of construction was, maybe also involving other stative verbs.

This post has been edited by chrix: 03 February 2010 - 07:31 AM

[knadolny]

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has me wondering about the education system during the Qing. Did many people receive a basic education in reading and writing? Or limited to those who could afford a basic education in literacy?

Since Kong Yiji says 你读过书么, it makes me think that literacy wasn't so widespread. He doesn't assume the boy can read. Since the purpose of simplified characters was to make literacy in Chinese easier, I am thinking many people could not read during the time of this story.

But your question is basic education. I am not so sure how advanced education was for the common person. Literary Chinese was definitely reserved for the elites who could afford the time/money to study.

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most of the hits seem to be for Lu Xun's story

And Lu Xun's unique style is what makes him so difficult to read for students and native speakers alike. I'm not so sure how widespread this construction is outside of Lu Xun's works.

[gato]

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教人活潑不得

Nowadays, this would be writtenas "叫人不能活泼".

Lu Xun was a pioneer of written vernacular Chinese (白话), also known as modern Chinese. When he wrote this story in 1919, modern Chinese had not yet been standardized. He, in effect, played a part in creating the standard, by combining literarary/classical Chinese and spoken vernacular into written vernacular Chinese.

Lu Xun grew up in Shaoxing (绍兴) in Zhejiang province and spoke a dialect close to Shanghainese (like a number of other writers famous in the pre-1949 era, like 张爱玲 and 郁达夫). You'll see dialect usage and literary Chinese in his writing. ”活泼不得“ sounds like local dialect to me. I also see a bit of Shanghainese cropping up in 郁达夫's writing. You will also find usages that would consider non-standard today. It's like 通假字 (i.e. misspellings) that one sees in Classical Chinese. Or like Shakespeare using spelling and grammar that are considered non-standard today.

[knadolny]

May I propose the following discussion question?

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From Lu Xun's Preface:
这一学年没有完毕，我已经到了东京了，因为从那一回以后，我便觉得医学并非一件紧要事，凡是愚弱的国民，即使体格如何健全，如何茁壮，也只能做毫无意义的示众的材料和看客，病死多少是不必以为不幸的。所以我们的第一要著，是在改变他们的精神，而善于改变精神的是，我那时以为当然要推文艺，于是想提倡文艺运动了

Lu Xun wrote because he wanted to create a literary movement and to change the spirit of the Chinese people as you can see from his preface to Nahan.

I think Kong Yiji is interesting because he is a thief, yet I still like him as a character. He seems to have a good heart as seen when he talks with the children. Yet people continually laugh at him. Those people then eventually break both of his legs for stealing from a rich man. Obviously, when he gets his last drink at the tavern he is about to die since he can no longer steal for food yet people still laugh at him.

In China today, do you think Lu Xun was successful in creating a new spirit for the Chinese people?

And in the context of Kong Yiji, do you think there are plenty of Kong Yiji alive in China today and being tormented by those better off?

[renzhe]

I have the complete works of Lu Xun in hardcover here, and the story is short so I will join in this month.

[chrix]

This ridiculing people for their failures seems to be a time-honoured custom. I was reading the biography of an official from the Han era, 東方朔, in the 史記, and there too he has to justify himself against the jeering of his peers, why he hasn't been promoted further even though he thinks himself "海內無雙":

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時會聚宮下博士諸先生與論議，共難之曰：“蘇秦、張儀一當萬乘之主，而都卿相之位，澤及後世。今子大夫修先王之術，慕圣人之義，諷誦詩書百家之言，不可勝數。著於竹帛，自以為海內無雙，即可謂博聞辯智矣。然悉力盡忠以事圣帝，曠日持久，積數十年，官不過侍郎，位不過執戟，意者尚有遺行邪？其故何也？”

This post has been edited by chrix: 05 February 2010 - 02:37 AM