Xiamen

[Fabiao]

Hi everyone. In autumn I'd like to spend at least a semester in China to improve my chinese, but i want to pick a smaller and less international city than Beijing. I found Xiamen really nice. Can someone tell me if Xiamen is a good city/university to learn chinese ? Thanks

[joshuawbb]

I live and study in Xiamen, and find the atmosphere here in general very nice. The city itself is one of China's cleanest and least polluted, right on the coast with lovely beaches, and right next door to Taiwan. You'll probably like it here a lot if you prefer slower and more laid-back city life.

I currently study at Xiamen University. As for quality it's been very mixed. Teachers tend to be a mix of Fujian born and bread and teachers from other provinces - nothing wrong with that and I find the teachers with the local accent just as good as any other accent would be in my opinion, and their accent doesn't have any sort of negative impact to me.

Classes in the university depend on your current level - there are levels beginning from virtually zero all the way up to 4th year and beyond. Each level is labeled by year (i.e. 1st year, 2nd year), and each level is divided into two sublevels, e.g. 一年上，一年下. You'll take a placement test and be put into a class depending on the reuslt. Classes are divided into three main class subjects - general Hanyu/汉语 class, listening/听力 and speaking/口语 which will make up the mandatory credits of your semester. Teaching is usually 3 hours per day (4 if you include breaks), 5 days a week. You can choose a limited amount of elective courses from a broad selection, including self defence, other academic courses such as reading and writing, etc. I personally didn't choose any myself this semester, as I have too much of my own study outside class.

You'll usually have a different teacher for each class. As I mentioned above, overall quality has been very mixed - your own impressions on quality depend entirely on your view of the teaching, methods and the way you prefer to study yourself. My first general Hanyu teacher last year was from just outside Beijing, taught in his Beijing-esque accent and was excellent - with a great teaching philosophy encouraging students' active participation, and was admired by most of the class. He later left for France and was replaced by another teacher. She was nice and kind in personality, but taught very little outside plain textbook guidelines and lessons tended to be rote, and she encouraged very little student participation in terms of conversation and discussion. We weren't gaining much input and the class dropped in number.

For listening, our teacher was again a good friend in personality, but our teaching consisted of continuous repetition of listening tests from the book, again and again. This was rather expected, and from the impression I get, most listening classes teach in a similar way. The tests were dull but good training for similar listening tests in the HSK, however were marred by atrocious sound quality - apparently someone did little more than re-record the tapes through a computer microphone into MP3 format. However on the good side, about 10% of the lesson would be a spoken presentation by one student each day, and the student would have to prepare a topic of one's choosing, and perhaps write a script. This was excellent and I loved the opportunity for freestyle expression.

Last year we didn't have a speaking lesson teacher, and our listening teacher occasionally gave spoken lessons in place. One more thing I would say is that the books we used last year were outdated and poor in material (Hanyu Jiaocheng - the blue and white old publications). The dull photos on the front of each one were good representations of the content inside, sorry to be so blunt. My girlfriend read through them and agreed that they were poor accompaniments for study. At the end of the semester each student was given an evaluation sheet to evaluate teaching quality and materials. Most people (from my impression) scathingly criticised the books, and this year we have new books - still the Hanyu Jiaocheng series, but 2009/10 new editions with completely new content. These are far from perfect but fairly good, and are a vast improvement over the previous books.

Continued below in my next post.

Edited April 13, 2010 at 02:08 PM by joshuawbb

[abcdefg]

Joshua -- A little more about Xiamen as a place to be and live, please when you have the chance. Not just information about the courses at the university. I would value your impressions.

[rezaf]

Don't study in the south. The pronunciation is very different from Putonghua. It's like you learn one language in the class but you have to understand another language outside. I sometimes feel a little bit awkward when I speak standart Putonghua in Shanghai. Then I have to add a lot of Shanghainese expressions like hao vo la, dei a... to make the conversation more natural.

[rezaf]

Actually I think southern accents are cool but I feel more comfortable when I speak to someone from Beijing.

[joshuawbb]

Sorry to be late in finishing my reply, my days often get really busy.

To continue where I left off, this year I'd say the quality is still mixed with regards to teaching, though one will have one's own impression. The teacher general Hanyu class has a great, humorous personality and is a senior teacher here. The lessons do spend a great deal focusing on rote learning and there is only limited focus on individual students' progress, but she often has a good wit and teaches fairly well in my opinion. Our speaking class teacher is young and very enthusiastic, and she teaches well. She tends to give group work of coming up with small scenarios and making your own dialogues, which is fun. For speaking we use Short-Term Spoken Chinese - Elementary, which I don't find overly special - I feel its translation/explanations of vocabulary lacking in detail and the book doesn't do a great job to me, but that's my opinion. The teacher is pretty good though, as I've described. One downside to me is that compared to the level of my other classes, the speaking lessons started as disproportionately easy - we're supposed to be a 2nd semester class (一年下), so why we were starting again with 你是哪国人, etc, was beyond me. The level has risen somewhat since though, and is relatively suitable.

Lastly, the listening lessons are probably much the same as what you'd find in most Chinese universities (from what others here have said to me) - fast-paced multi-choice exercises in a textbook, which mostly train your ability to pick out key words and phrases from text you may not necessarily understand 100%. This is somewhat good practice for the HSK as it is given in a relatively similar format, but I find is far more beneficial to do my own listening at home, using HSK textbooks recommended by people here. I wasn't impressed by the tingli teaching in my class, and I had a little rant about it here: http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/24751-proper-methods-for-teachingstudying-listening-material

Then again when it comes to listening practice, it depends on what your goals of learning are. If you're aiming to take the HSK at some point or another, then the tests available in HSK textbooks and tingli classes will be helpful in learning the exam technique and tuning your skills to pick out what is needed during the test. But as others in this forum have said before me (sorry, I can't quite remember the names), I feel that the best way of improving your listening is to focus deeply on conversing with Chinese people; which engages your interest and helps your ability to both think of what to say on your feet and anticipate the responses. This as well as listening to good or authentic material (Chinesepod.com springs to mind as one example), and not stressing too much on textbook exercises which I don't feel help your listening very much.

Ah, seems I'm straying off topic a little, so:

City life in Xiamen:

I've really enjoyed myself here ever since I arrived and certainly haven't regretted choosing to study here. As I said before, the pace of life is slower here than larger, more crowded cities and the environment is generally very pleasant. I'm small-town born and bred, and would probably feel strangled in somewhere like Beijing. Starting with climate, Xiamen's climate doesn't change much - free from the extreme summer heat you might find around Guangdong Province and winters are very mild. Spring and Autumn tend to be very similar; warm and a transition between hot and cooler temperatures.

--Apartments and residence:

Life here is not expensive, though the city has its contradictions. Xiamen has some of south China's most expensive property prices when it comes to buying land, but prices for renting places can be extremely reasonable when compared to first-tier cities. For example, my first apartment was a nice 1800 RMB per month place 2 minutes outside the university west gate (in Da Xue Cheng, the Xiamen University Xi Cun area), and for students the area is probably the single most convenient spot in the entire city. Almost everything you can need in terms of convenience was within a 10 minute walking distance. The apartment was 50 sq. metres, one bedroom, bathroom and kitchen, and well furnished. For such a fairly small 1800 RMB is considered quite expensive here; you were basically buying the convenience of the apartment. My girlfriend and I currently live in a very nice 2300 RMB monthly place 20 minutes bus distance from the university, with two floors and two bedrooms.

A word of advice though, if you are looking for an apartment to rent, the Chinese-language BBS at xmfish.com (Xiamen city's best-known website) tends to offer the most apartments. It may be a good idea to get a Chinese friend to help you find an apartment through there as great deals can be had, though remember that as you're not using an agency you should decide who you trust or not. An agency is also a good option if you don't mind paying commission to them for finding the place for you. My girlfriend and I found my first apartment that way, and our second place through the BBS. To sum things up, rented apartments tend to cost at the lowest 500-800 RMB per month for very small bedroom-size places, perhaps with a private bathroom, mid-range 1300 to 1900 for places like my first apartment, and anything upwards from 2000, 3000 RMB, etc for nicer places. My girlfriend has stayed in a couple of 500-600 RMB places before, and depending on what you find I can indeed vouch for the cleanliness and quality of the ones she found (with the exception of some demolition work around the first one she stayed in). They were nice, cosy little places.

Naturally if you were a university student here you would have the choice of staying in a dormitory, or find your own apartment as detailed above. I haven't had experience of dormitory life I'm afraid, but I'm sure it's rewarding too. Note that staying in a dormitory when compared to living outside may or may not be cheaper, depending on your lifestyle and the availability of cheaper apartments. Also if you stay in a dormitory you should naturally follow university regulations, particularly a rather strict 11pm curfew; unfortunate if you enjoy nightlife.

--General cost of living:

Xiamen is one of China's Special Economic zones along with Shenzhen, though it naturally can't rival Shenzhen's development and scale. As I said before, Xiamen's cost of living is fairly low but the city has its contradictions - for Chinese graduate students the city doesn't offer much in salary or personal development opportunities - my girlfriend's good job was a lucky find, but it is a highly desired place for the rich to buy property and retire, since the city is very clean, comfortable in climate and picturesque in location. If you have a mid-range apartment, don't often go to upscale restaurants, cut down on expensive lifestyle (such as buying lots of imported goods) and keep the nightlife to weekends, you'll probably find 5000 RMB will be more than comfortable per month. With a cheaper lifestyle or cheaper residence, 4000 RMB is probably just as good and less than that is surely still doable if you keep yourself somewhat frugal. It's evident Chinese graduates can survive here on 2000 RMB (and possibly lower) salaries without too much help, though everything depends on your lifestyle, since Xiamen can either be cheap or expensive for you.

--Transport:

Xiamen is made up of several districts - Si Ming District contains all the main city and city centre, and the district makes up the main island. Outside the island are the outskirt districts, such as Jimei district. Xiamen is a very compact and rather small city, and travel is very easy. The bus lines are very good and all bus fares are fixed at 1 RMB per journey, regardless of whether the summer air conditioning is on or off - with the exception of some buses which travel off the main island and between districts, which are between 2 and 4 RMB. Taxi travel is also relatively cheap - fares start at 8 RMB and are 2 RMB per km after the first 3km, alike many other cities, but since Xiamen is so compact you can travel virtually anywhere on the main island and the maximum price you'll clock up is about 45 RMB. From Gaoqi Airport into the main city is about 35 - 40 RMB at the most, and short inner-city travel is rarely over 16 RMB or so. Taxis have very similar paint/decal designs; usually only the colour denotes the 'company' of the taxi. Taxi vehicles are a mix of everyone's favourite Volkswagon Santana, certain Honda models and a Kia model. And taxis are everywhere here; at one time on a busy road, you can bet about 40% of the cars are taxis. Stick your hand out on any road and one will probably stop for you within a few minutes.

Xiamen also has a secondary bus service called the BRT (Bus Rapid Transit), which is an express bus service, serving major points in the city and a few outside the main island. The buses run on roads exclusively designed for them so they run through no traffic, and you could treat them like a metro system of sorts. In the city centre, the BRT buses run on a raised highway separate from other traffic, and buses are boarded like you would in a typical metro.

Xiamen's train station links plenty of other cities, including long distance travel to Beijing, Shanghai, etc, and there are also three or so long-distance coach stations which travel around Fujian Province and outside. For example, by coach nearby Zhangzhou is about an hour away, Fuzhou 4 hours, and there are direct routes to cities outside Fujian such as Shenzhen, Hong Kong, etc. A new high-speed rail service is opening on April 26th which will bring travel time to Fuzhou under 1.5 hours, and the rail service should link Xiamen all the way up to Shanghai with high-speed rail. Xiamen is also well connected to Taiwan, though the connections are quite new. A new ferry service started earlier this year between Xiamen and Taiwan and Gaoqi airport has routine flights.

--Shopping, things to do:

Xiamen's shopping scene has been growing bigger over the past few years and has become pretty good, though it can't compare to much larger cities quite yet. As is the probably the case in a lot of cities, clothing and fashion shops are everywhere and make up the bulk of shops here, though I'm making too big a generalisation and there's a broad range of shopping to do if you know where to look. Zhongshan Road is probably the most well-known commercial street; it's a little overhyped to me but is pretty nice and closed off to all traffic, making for a good shopping atmosphere. Xiamen also boasts the huge SM Shopping Plaza and newer SM Lifestyle Plaza, two massive shopping centres which have plenty inside. All the usual super/hypermarkets are here including a new Tesco (British supermarket chain) which should be opening sometime soon. There is also a Metro hypermarket here which is a very good place for imported goods, if you're missing some things from home. It's a German members-only hypermarket, but university students can shop there by showing their student IDs. Xiamen also has a luxury shopping plaza tucked away in the city centre, with a Haagen Dazs, Gucci store, etc.

I haven't really been to the nightlife here since I just don't get enough opportunity (and live with my girlfriend), so I don't know too much about it. Xiamen has plenty of cafes and similar restaurants which open to very late at night, and when it comes to bars and clubs, Xiamen has quite a few nowadays which are bustling at night. The nightlife has expanded a lot over the past few years and whilst it won't exactly blow you away, there are several places to go now if you like to party at night. The nightlife scene here is young and still growing, so Xiamen is lacking somewhat when compared to larger cities.

Speaking of cafes, there are cafes everywhere here - most are small-scale and owned individually, or part of small chains. There are no international coffee chains such as Starbucks here. But I find most of the cafes here extremely pleasant, often beautifully and creatively designed and with lovely beverages. Most also offer food along with drinks, and some offer full meals. Naturally some places have better coffee than others, but you'll find your favourites quickly after moving here. I personally much prefer the cafes here than any Starbucks back home. The largest concentration of cafes is arguably on Gulangyu Island (detailed later), followed by Xiamen University and the city centre around Xiahe Road. Around the university, including two within the campus there are no less than 10 cafes all within 15 minutes walking distance of each other, each uniquely designed with different styles of coffee. Cafes on Gulangyu Island tend to have their own individual fame and followings, for example Babycat Cafe, a well-known chain cafe which also specialises in traditional Gulangyu pastry-biscuits, with each cafe having its own resident white cat. Another cafe on Gulangyu allows you to rent a stylised locker for as long as you wish (or as long as the place stays in business), putting whatever you wish inside. A locker I saw was designed by a lady for her husband, presumably with memories inside which was to be opened on their anniversary someday far later this year.

As mentioned before, Xiamen has many beaches which stretch all along the island - the most beautiful one is arguably the one nearest to Xiamen University, which stretches along the island for several kilometres. There are restaurants, bars, hotels and small apartment areas all along the beaches, and there are frequent beach parties through summer.

As for food, being a coastal city Xiamen is quite well-known for its seafood, though Gulangyu Island is probably the best place for a seafood experience.

--General environment:

Xiamen likes to advertise its reputation as one of China's cleanest and least-polluted cities, and most of the time it stands to its title pretty well. Life here in general has a slower-paced feel to it than bigger cities in my opinion, and though I can't generalise everything, it's very clean here. Peace and quiet can be had in several areas, particularly in the Xiamen University campus. Xiamen University also likes to boast that it has China's most beautiful campus, and I think it's quite easy to agree if you can ignore the occasional construction work. The campus centre contains a large lake outside the main admin building. In the overseas teaching building, most have a pleasant ocean view.

In all the main city and city centre, motorbikes are banned, and only electric bikes are permitted (motorbikes may be only used outside the Si Ming District island). Beeping one's horn is also banned in many areas of the city centre and in Xiamen University, though this is entirely unenforcable. Still, it's a nice management attitude to have. Xiamen is what seems to be an ongoing experiment with environmental protection strategies, and it's been doing rather well.

Lastly, a quick word on healthcare - Xiamen does have some good hospitals, the outright best being the Taiwanese built and run Chang Geng hospital. It's outside the main island though, about a 15 minute taxi ride away, so if you've an emergency you may consider Zhongshan Hospital, probably Xiamen's second best as it was overtaken by Chang Geng in 2008. Zhongshan Hospital has a foreigner's ward as well if you prefer.

--Gulangyu Island:

Gulangyu Island is probably Xiamen's most famous area and a key tourist attraction. The island was partly a Western settlement from Xiamen's colonial history, hence the architecture is dominantly European in style. The island is very scenic and well worth visiting if you're in Xiamen. On the island are of course, several beaches, along with the island's famous Piano Museum and Sunlight Rock - the highest peak on the island which provides a lovely view of Xiamen and the general area. Unfortunately the peak is now fully a tourist site, and costs an extortionate 60 RMB just to visit the top, which is usually crowded with tourists, and security guards usher everyone down from the top after 5 minutes or so to allow the next crowd to come up.

Though it is a highly touristic area, Gulangyu's environment is also well-protected. The island is completely vehicle free - all vehicles including even bicycles are banned, and you've just got your feet to travel on. The island is small enough to easily cover on foot though. The only exception to this is are electric tourist buggies and emergency fire vehicles. To be honest I think the buggies are a bit of a nuisance, since they are fairly big and Gulangyu's old paths and narrow roads mean you have to tuck into the wall whenever one comes past you.

Gulangyu is also famous for its seafood (avoid the made-for-tourist eateries) and as mentioned before, its traditional biscuits which many cafes and shops sell. Just like the cafes, Gulangyu's hotels each tend to have their own fame and following - nearly all of them are individual non-star places, some of which are also people's residences. Gulangyu does have a 4-star hotel or two, but frankly I think you'd have a more pleasant experience at the family or small-scale places, as long as you read up on the cleanest ones first.

One thing you can find on Gulangyu that you'll be hard-pressed to find elsewhere is good old-fashioned quiet. Due to the lack of vehicles and the island's pleasant environment, most of the island outside the commercial island centre can be lovely and silent, occasionally with the sound of birds or pianos.

Edited April 14, 2010 at 04:51 AM by joshuawbb

[abcdefg]

Thanks, Joshua, for that excellent report. I like Kunming a lot, but it sounds like Xiamen is also a good place to live. I will go explore it a bit later in the year.

[GaoLao888]

Can't beat the BBQ and hotpot in Xiamen!

[Fabiao]

Thank you joshuawbb !! Really a good report!

[xueshengDan]

Yes, Joshua that was an excellent run down ( report) of the city.

Thank you for the detailed information.

[putonghua73]

I too, must also add my thanks to Joshuawbb for posting an extremely detailed, thorough and comprehensive guide to living and studying in Xiamen.

Your postings are an incredibly valuable resource, and Xiamen does indeed sound like an alternative to Kunming. My only pipsqueak of concern is Chinese language courses at the University - my desire to avoid classroom based learning with variable teaching is why I primarily chose to study at Keats here in Kunming.

I'd be quite interested in investigating Xiamen - if I could find 1-2-1 study options - as a place to study for my next sabbatical to China after this present sabbatical, were it not for the fact I now have a girlfriend here in Kunming, and have developed a number of [Chinese] friends here.

Were I studying in China for a year as opposed to 5/6 months than dividing my time between two places would be an extremely attractive option. But I'm already developing roots and ties in Kunming.

Once again, thank you for taking time to post such a comprehensive guide to Xiamen. I don't suppose you wish to travel around other parts of China to do the same ;) Hey! Maybe a new career opportunity for you!

Cheers!

[joshuawbb]

Wow, so many thanks! I didn't expect that You're welcome, and thank you very much too.

My girlfriend and I sampled several hotpot places in winter - I'm far from an expert on them though, so I think she'd be better at recommending places. I think there are several pretty good BBQ places here. There is a Brazilian BBQ place - can't quite remember the name, but it's a chain I've been to before in Shenzhen.

I'm not quite sure myself of all the one-to-one study opportunities but I'm pretty sure there may be some here - I don't remember an institution from memory, but the student noticeboards in the overseas teaching building here are usually crammed with adverts, mostly from Chinese students, overseas students or other Chinese people offering 1-2-1, etc, but I think I've seen one or two institution adverts. The administration have cleaned the board now of all the old paper posts but I'll look out there. It's a shame really, I wanted to photograph it since the layers of notes looked artistic in a random way.

Indeed in the university, teaching is classroom based and I haven't seen any variation from that in my course unfortunately, but I didn't really expect it to vary myself. I think 1-2-1 would be far more satisfying than my class, so I might go looking for such a place myself. If I was able to get a residence permit studying 1-2-1 now I would look for the next opportunity, since I find my self study seems to help far more than what I'm learning in the class.

Oh I'd love to make a career out of travel writing if I could, haha, not that I see myself as particularly good at it. I wish I was able to travel around China and get to know many cities as well as I've so far become accustomed to Xiamen.

Many thanks again for all your words

[Fabiao]

Hi Joshua, I have another question for you. Today I talked with my chinese teacher about Xiamen. He told me that south of Nanjing everyone speaks a dialect totally different from putonghua. Southern people understand and speak standard chinese but among them they speak dialect. So, how are things there in Xiamen? Can you understand town-talk? Thanks

[joshuawbb]

Down here in the south, people do indeed speak a very different dialect (Minnanhua) along with Mandarin. If my facts are straight (they may well not be, it gets a bit confusing describing the dialects), Minnan is generally made of the southern dialects around here, particularly Amoy in Xiamen and Taiwanese in Taiwan. All are more-or-less mutually intelligible and sound similar, so to stop me confusing myself about the terms, from here I'll just refer to the local lingo as Minnanhua. Here in Xiamen, and much of the south for that matter, Minnanhua is commonly spoken and there is a noticeable accent on people's Mandarin.

I'd like to backtrack on a comment I made in my first post in which I said that in my opinion, when studying Chinese, any accent may be as good as other accents. Whilst it doesn't bother me that the accent here is different than up north (I quite like it actually), the views of others would depend on what one wants out of studying Chinese. If you're looking to study in an environment which gives you close exposure to a 'standard' or close-sounding Chinese accent, you may feel bothered by the accent here down south; the same if you're looking for strong focus on erhua, the features of a Beijing accent, etc. But it's a matter of personal choice - I certainly wouldn't go as far as saying one should avoid the south, and I've felt very happy studying here with regards to the local dialect.

With Xiamen being a Special Economic Zone and whatnot, I would hazard a guess and say that plenty of people from around China come to here, and not everyone is from around the south. Minnanhua here is spoken as you described - among southern family members, friends and acquaintances, but not often outright to strangers or those one hasn't met before - this is a guess somewhat too, based on my girlfriend's life experience and my observations. In retail, professional situations or any general transaction between strangers Mandarin is the always the default, and is the language I hear during 75% of my daily life. However the smaller the city or the more rural you go around here, Minnanhua is increasingly what you primarily hear. An example (from observation), would be the differences between Xiamen and the nearby smaller city of Zhangzhou, where Minnanhua seems considerably more prevalant in the speech I hear. When visiting my girlfriend's hometown, Minnanhua was almost exclusive, apart from the times locals spoke to me.

I don't think the dialect would be an issue of concern to someone studying here who wants to keep their Mandarin standard - more the noticeable accent on people's Mandarin. It's well known that people here in the south pronounce Mandarin differently, the easiest example coming to my mind being pronunciation of "sh" vs "s", both often being spoken almost exclusively as "s". A quote from Bill and Sue Brown's popular website on Xiamen (is this allowed here?):

"...Southern Chinese can’t pronounce “sh” either, so Shanghai is Sanghai. They also can’t tell f from h, or l from r and n, or the long e and the short e. To further complicate matters, they hear no difference between t and th, or c and ch or z and zh, deng deng. And it does make a difference, especially in business, because it is impossible to tell “4” from “10” or “eat” (yes, the tone is different, but they mix that up too)." (http://www.amoymagic.com/index.php?mad-about-mandarin!,153)

That to me sounds like overdoing the differences a bit, since my experiences are different with the accent. I hear the "sh/s" difference all the time but it's the only one I can call to mind as being particularly noticeable, for example I often here "sen2me" instead of "shen2me". Speaking the relatively standard accent I'm taught in class, nobody seems to have ever become confused about my meaning when pronouncing words with "t/th", "c/ch", etc (with the obvious exception of some awful pronunciation by me anyway occasionally). When it comes to someone speaking to you quickly, or talking about more high-level words with "s/sh", maybe the southern pronunciation may be an issue, but knowing when someone is saying 四，时，室，十，是，事儿, etc, I easily know through context and tone, even though they often sound quite similar. I've grown accustomed to it. One important thing to note is that I've never picked up such pronunciation myself (though a test would help to prove that).

What's interesrting is that despite this accent, I certainly don't think it's impossible for southerners here to pronounce it in the 'proper' way. My girlfriend in particular makes sure her pronunciation is accurate when speaking to me in Chinese, especially with pronunciation of "shi", and then drops back to her southern accent when talking with others. She also looks out keenly to see if I'm picking up inaccuracies, and makes sure to correct me on them. Likewise her friend who is staying with us does the same, altering her accent when speaking with me, I guess because I'm a learner. Lastly so did one of my teachers last semester, and reverted her pronunciation if she said something in the southern accent (just to note, I'm calling the accent 'southern' just for convenience, there's probably a more accurate term). My girlfriend, her friends and the teacher in question are all from around here.

As mentioned earlier, in class I have always been taught to speak towards a standard accent. The accent you pick up probably depends on your teacher - all my teachers so far have come from different areas; one from outside Beijing who taught with heavy emphasis on erhua, the one mentioned above from Zhangzhou, and a current teacher is from Xinjiang, who speaks in quite a standard accent, though with only light erhua. All of the teachers taught generally by the textbook - meaning that they all towards a standard accent, following how the textbook material swayed towards pronouncing. Their speaking was varied, but never in a direct southern accent or noticeable regional accent other than tilting towards Beijing and erhua. Even though my current teachers don't speak too much with erhua themselves (they usually try), we are always reminded to emphasise it ourselves and make sure to write the "儿" when suitable in writing, etc.

All-in-all I think the importance of the dialect and accent is what you make of it, and what you are aiming for in study. If you study here, I certainly don't think you'll pick up the southern accent, for all the teachers I have had do not teach with it, and correct themselves if they do. Of course that does depend somewhat on your teacher's attitude. As I said earlier, the general accent here would be what concerns people; the Minnan dialect here won't cause any effect on your studies, and everyone will speak Mandarin with you when you speak with them. I myself like the dialent and accent here, though I haven't been up north before it makes a change from the northern accent often emphasised in learning Chinese, and also good exposure to a regional dialect when your textbooks are feeding you standard pronunciation at the same time. I'm all up for wide exposure, just as I think it's important when studying English too to be aware of how regional accents sound. If you're aware of the accent and how it sounds in contast to standard Mandarin, you won't unwillingly pick it up here.

I find Minnanhua fascinating to hear, and I would love to try learning it a bit after I've gained far better Mandarin proficiency - to maybe impress my girlfriend's parents at some point in the future, or to open up more conversation opportunities if I visited Taiwan. Oh and I almost forgot - for note, Minnanhua and Mandarin are entirely mutually unintelligible, and Minnanhua may as well be an different language, however like most other dialects the same characters are of course used - Simplified in the Mainland and Traditional in Taiwan. The two are very much poles apart, and alike Cantonese, I believe Minannhua has a different set of tones. But I see that as just a challenge myself

[jirbau]

Hi, does anyone know a good website where I can look for apartments or houses in Xiamen?

[jalsamarrai]

Hi, does anyone know a good website where I can look for apartments or houses in Xiamen?

In response to jirbau...how is your Chinese level? If you can read Chinese, then I would recommend a site that most Chinese use...58.com. This link here will take you to apartments that are being rented out in Xiamen http://xm.58.com/chuzu/. If you have any other questions, please do ask =)

[jalsamarrai]

I would like to share my opinion on this matter of studying standard Mandarin in Xiamen...I have been in Xiamen for about 2 years now, and the more I am here the more I realize that Xiamen is not an ideal place to study STANDARD Mandarin. I have been lucky and fortunate enough to have traveled to over 25 cities and 14 provinces in China, and I have to be honest in saying that the Chinese spoken in Fujian province is some of the worst I've ever heard. My own Chinese level is probably at Upper-intermediate, and I currently have a Chinese girlfriend with whom I live and speak only Chinese.

If you have lived in Beijing, Tianjin, or anywhere in that general area and have studied Chinese before coming to the south, then I think you will be fine living down here. However, if you are a new learner and expect to learn Chinese in suitable environment, then Xiamen is not the city for you. The locals here do speak Mandarin, but their grammar, accent and pronunciation are all pretty heavily flawed. Examples:

-The number sounds for the number "2" and "6" are pronounced incorrectly..."liu" and "er"

-Grammar structures such as: 聊下天 is often spoken 聊天下 here...this is grammatically incorrect and arguably strange to northerners, and people who speak standard Mandarin

-As mentioned previously by joshuawbb the "h" as in 是，时，事 are pretty much nonexistent

-Words including the "h" and "f" sounds are pronounced unclearly...there's a joke here where 飞机飞了 is pronounced hui1 ji1 hui1 le due to their mispronunciation of the "f" sound

-You will hear a lot of words that don't exist in standard Mandarin and will not be understood by not from this province, such as the word "to stick" 粘贴 being pronounced “nian" with a first tone...basically they have taken a noun 粘粘的 and transformed it into a verb...

These are just some of the examples I can think of off the top of my head. I think what is most important when studying Chinese is to closely examine what your end goal is. If you are looking to speak very standard Mandarin, both in terms of grammar and pronunciation, then I think learning in Xiamen wouldn't be the best use of your time. If you are looking to casually learn Mandarin, while also enjoying the island life and being in a place with lots of foreigners, then I would recommend coming here. As for me, I came to China to learn how to speak excellent, standard, beautiful Chinese and small part of me wishes I had chosen a city where I was surrounded by people who speak standard Chinese. Either way, one must admit that Xiamen island is a nice place and does have its positive aspects, such as the beach and scenery.

[OneEye]

Yup, sounds similar to the strongly 閩南話-influenced accents in Taiwan. It can get pretty punny sometimes, though. You'll see signs like "你2了沒？" (你餓了沒？). At one coffee shop I go to, there's a girl named 小慧, and the tip jar is labeled "小慧箱" (小費箱).

I find, however, that with most people, the dentals (z, c, s) and retroflexes (zh, ch, sh) are actually distinguished pretty clearly, though it didn't sound like it when I first moved here. I found out later that it's really the retroflexes and palatals (j, q, x) that aren't distinguished. That is, 'sh' is more or less the same as 'x,' for example. That's perfectly acceptable, because it poses no confusion (once you've trained your ear to hear it correctly). Palatal initials will always be followed by /i/ or /y/, and retroflexed initials never will be. That accounts for part of the "softness" of the accent, and explains why many people think they don't pronounce their "retroflexes." They do, just differently.

[alayeer]

Hey, thanks for the wonderful information regarding Xiamen. I have also started to look information regarding this city, and I find that Xiada seems to be the most popular place to learn Chinese there. However I read that Xiada has increased its tuition cost for language program from 9000 RMB/term to 14000 RMB/term. What do you guys think about it? Is it still worth it to learn Chinese in Xiada? I see that Xiamen also has another unis like Huaqiao, or Jimei. Does anyone have any experience with the unis?

[carenja]

Hi alayeer,

just saw your question about Xiamen... I studied there for one year, just finished in July this year. I think I have to disappoint you a bit. Xiada is not such a good choice anymore. The language institute has moved outside the city centre to Xiangan district, about a 1,5 h bumpy bus ride from town. This means you have the choice to live in the city and commute to classes everyday (which can be any day any time of the day which means you often need to stay the whole day to cover all your lessons) or you stay on campus at the international student dormitory (those guys party hard...). If I had the choice again I would go somewhere else. The city is nice but considering the trouble of commuting, it is not really worth it.