[xuechengfeng]

Anybody know where I can buy some cheap ones, and maybe.. a .. site .. in .. English?

I'm sure that's probably the level I'm reading at (500 some characters).

[kentsuarez]

Do you want ones with a line of pinyin underneath each horizontal line of simplified characters (PRC), or with bo po mo fo alongside each vertical column of traditional (TWN)? There are also some available with characters but no pronunciation; some of the latter also have the corresponding English on the facing page, and are often translations of Western stories like Through the Looking Glass.

I have quite a few which I'd be willing to sell -- some of each kind, but most are trad. w/ bopomofo. I bought them when I was at your level, but only read a few, which have margin notes, where I looked up various compounds and wrote their meaning in English, which would be helpful to you; most are in brand new condition.

The PRC ones are mostly very low quality paper and printing, but were dirt cheap. The TWN ones are high quality, nice books, in both hardcover and paperback, with a combination of traditional Chinese stories, translated Western stories like Huck Finn, fairy tales, Alice in Wonderland, etc.

A few are bilingual, with English on one page and Chinese on the facing page. Oddly, some have mistakes in the English which implies backtranslation!

I also have a set of 15 Japanese manga in softcover book format which are all one continuous series, about a teenage schoolboy, the girl he pines for, and a girl who magically comes to life out of a videotape and causes him endless trouble and a bit of a frustrated love triangle -- very pulp but amusing. Slightly racy, here and there, in a typically juvenile and sexist fashion, as you can imagine. The text in the balloons is all trad. Ch., but rather easy, and extremely colloquial, with all the extremely useful slang phrases like "oh, crud", "no way!", etc., which textbooks usually fail to teach us. I've noted the pronunciation of all the more difficult characters, and the meanings, beside them. I picked them up to learn all the colloquial tidbits like "get lost, jerk", "ooh, she's a babe!" and that kind of stuff, which has proven very valuable as a counterweight to the formal stuff in textbooks.

The whole lot is enough to fill a couple of bookshelves and bring you up through the intermediate reading range. I would consider selling them all in one lot, somewhat below cost, plus shipping; surface would be the only reasonable option (slow boat) and takes around 7 to 9 weeks. If you are interested, I'll add more details as to the number of books in each group, and some more titles.

BTW, I noticed you're in Columbus, where I lived for 8 years -- are you in the OSU program? I started my Chinese studies through the excellent independent study class there -- hats off to Galal Walker!

[xuechengfeng]

Wow, thanks, Kent. I would defintely be interested. Although, I'm not familiar with what bopomofo is, only pinyin. Please do list the books and costs and I'll let you know.

And yes, I am in the OSU Chinese program. I'm in my 2nd year right now and also am doing the independent study. I'll be heading into 311.51 this quarter, where we start reading the frustrating Lady in the painting.

[kentsuarez]

Hi, here's a rough list I typed in last night, as I will probably sell them on eBay or Forumosa shortly. It wouldn't be worth it to sell one or two, given the effort of pricing them, boxing and shipping, but if you want, say, a couple dozen, you could pay me by Paypal, and I could ship them surface mail. I list the original prices, not what I'm asking. The price is negotiable.

kent
======== LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED, WITH MORE DICTIONARIES ADDED, AND SOME BOOKS ON ETYMOLOGY AND ORACLE BONES====
(I will repost this later as one or more separate threads, revised, after xuechengfeng buys the ones she wants.)


Group A are bilingual books for children or youths, excellent for bringing you up through the intermediate levels of Chinese reading; English on the left, TRADITIONAL CHARACTERS (TC) on the right, written horizontally, without phonetics:
--------------------------------
A1 series, 12 volumes. Dà Xià (Ta-Shia) Publisher, English-Chinese Library Collection, softcover, about 240pp per book, all unused, good condition but some edges slightly yellowed:
The Arabian Nights NT$100 (approx $3 US)
The Little Match-girl and other stories (Hans Christian Anderson) $90
Aesop’s Fables $100
The Happy Prince and other stories, Oscar Wilde $80
Robin Hood $100
Fairy Tales (Grimm) $90
Grimm’s Tales $90
Pinocchio $100
The Great Stone Face and other stories, Hawthorne $70
Tales of the Three Musketeers, Dumas $80
Uncle Tom’s Cabin, HB Stowe $90
Call of the Wild, London $90

A2. 南台圖書公司Nan-Tai Publisher, 3 volumes
Moby Dick 100NT
Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
Adventures of Tom Sawyer
--------------------------------
–––––––––––––––––––––
Group B are TC vertically plus ㄅㄆㄇㄈ bopomofo to the right of each character:

B1. 金色同年書係 – 泉源出版社 series, 13 volumes, NT$150 each, softcover, about 240pp per book, all in very good condition, unread, except for one or so, which has a few margin notes (helpful translations of terms encountered):
中國神話故事 mythology
中國神仙故事fairy tales
中國民俗故事 folk stories
中國寓言故事 parables
中國節日故事 the story behind holidays
中國鬼狐故事 the spirit fox
五百字的故事 the story behind 500 characters
唐詩的故事 the story behind Tang poems
孫悟空的故事 the Monkey King
論語的故事 stories about Lunyu, the Analects of Confucius
三字經的故事 the story behind the three-character classics
東方民間故事 Eastern folk tales
中國童話1 Chinese children’s stories

B2. 談因說果選集 Buddhist tales; unread, n.p.

B3. Chinese class textbooks for Taiwanese children in public schools, grades 1a, 2b, 3a, 3b, 4a, 4b, 5a, 5b, heavily used with copious margin notes in all but the last. About 105 pages per book, softcover, price unknown, TC with ㄅㄆㄇㄈ bopomofo. The higher levels omit the bopomofo for the readings, but add it for newly introduced characters. Like any books below which did not have a plastic-laminated paper cover, I plasticized these after purchase with a roll of clear contact adhesive plastic (flexible) to protect them and make them more durable.. For sale cheap. I used these to teach myself Chinese, from level 0 on up to 5th grade.
-------------------------------

Group C: SIMPLIFIED CHARACTERS

C1. Chinese class textbooks from PRC, simplified, grades 2 to ?? (12 volumes, probably to 6th grade or so). With pinyin; the higher levels omit it for the readings, but add it for newly introduced characters. Prices run about 2 to 7 yuan per book. Plasticized after purchase. Mostly unuused, low-grade PRC printings; after storing them 9-10 years, many have yellowed edges, or darkened spots in the paper here and there.

C2. Children’s stories, 13 vols. Ppbk. series, about 100 pp and 3 yuan each, plasticized, most unread:
Robin Hood
Greek Heroes
The Magic Slippers?
Odyssey
Some nutty rabbit
Sleepy Hollow
Tales of the African Desert
Canterbury Tales
Black Beauty
Arabian Nights?
Treasure Island, 469pp, 14.3 yuan
Shakespearean tales 239pp, 7.9 yuan
Count of Monte Cristo 221pp, 7.4 yuan

C3. This next title is hilarious: 黃色童話 430pp, 16.6yuan, unread. PRC softcover.

C4. Dinosaurs Q&A 101; 261pp, 12.6 yuan

---------------------------------------------------------------

In addition, I also have a variety of CHINESE TEXTBOOKS AND DICTIONARIES for foreigners, as follows

Group D. ALL IN PINYIN, no characters:

D1. Colloquial Chinese, T’ung and Pollard, 322pp, no price. Stiff plastic cover added. Highlighting.

D2. Essential Chinese, by Lexus. A Penguin book in tall, slender format to fit in a traveller’s back pocket. Organized alphabetically by topic and situation, as well as vocab, so under “marvellous” or “matches”, you get the pinyin Chinese, while under money or electricity, you get a brief lesson on how to deal with this topic in China and all the relevant vocab; $9US. fair condition.
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Group E. BOTH REGULAR AND SIMPLIFIED, WITH PINYIN:

E1. The Right Word in Chinese, Irene Saunders, 264pp, HK$50. Has 153pp of everyday vocab alphabetized by English, plus 16 specialized glossaries, covering family, clothes, food, colors, sports, mail phone and telex, customs, tax, finance, commerce, etc. good cond.

E2, Basic Chinese Grammar and Sentence Patterns, Syrokomla-Stefanowska & Lee, 99pp, heavy highlighting & notes; $14US
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MIXED FORMAT – PINYIN ONLY FOR MAIN TEXT; SC IN REAR:

F1. Passport’s Basic Chinese Vocabulary, Hu and Lee
Has 120pp of basic vocab organized by topic, pinyin only; then 110pp of English to Chinese glossary with SC added; then Chinese-English glossary, 389pp total, good condition, no price.

F2. Teach Yourself Living Mandarin, vols 2&3 by Sarah Lu, plus 5. Cassette Tapes; very nice series.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REGULAR CHARACTERS:

G1. Chinese Folk Tales Vols I, II, 正中書局 large script; vocab has bopomofo, non-standard but intuitive romanization added (e.g., shr for shi); about 850pp only, no price.

G2. The Practical Course for Learning Chinese Mandarin and Characters Book I, Young Kwan Liang, 412pp, 160nt. Has ㄅㄆㄇㄈ bopomofo, highlighting and notes.

G3. Practical Chinese Reader, Elementary Course, Book II, 322pp, Cheng & Tsui Co. $350NT unused

G4. Practical Chinese Reader II, Patterns and Exercises 109pp, NT$220, highlighting on 1st 2 pp, otherwise unused

G5. Practical Chinese Reader I & II: Writing Workbook, 95pp, $220NT

G6. Chatting in Chinese, An Intermediate Text, by Roz Beste, 141pp, highlighting thru p.17, otherwise unused. $180NT. Written by a Taipei expat English teacher who was unhappy with the books available.

G7. A Practical Chinese Grammar, Hung-nin Samuel Cheung, heftier 520pp, moderate highlighting but good shape, NT$640

G8. Speaking with Chinese in Taipei, CM Chien, 163pp; heavy highlighting and messy notes in front 35pp, then clean; first few pp falling out; still worthwhile due to accompanying 4 cassettes in case, total $600 NT.

G9. Practical Chinese Dialogue II, (“Shida Red book”, I think), 600pp, light highlighting in 1st half, good condition, no price

G10. Mandarin Chinese – A Functional Reference Grammar, Li and Thompson, in two volumes; Vol. I, all in Chinese. Vol. II, all in English., $500NT total. Stiff plastic covers added for durability. Excellent books, virtually unused. Spines very sunfaded.

G11. New English Practical Handbook – effectively a Chinese-English dictionary organized by category, e.g., botany, foodstuffs, flowers, fragrances, mammals, chemistry, optics, etc, ad nauseum, 958pp, 150NT

G12. Twenty Lessons in Intermediate Mandarin Chinese, Yeh Teh-Ming, 478pp, RC with bopomofo, plus non-standard romanization. Highlighting. No price.

G13. A New Complete English Chinese Dictionary, 文化圖書公司, Hardcover, ok condition, RC. 400NT.

G14. New English-Chinese Dictionary, 陽明書局 around 7,000 main entries. hardcover, like new, with owner’s name and stamp. Leatherette-like cover; inked alphabetic edgemarks. About $300NT.

G15. Modern English Encyclopedic Handbook陽明書局 $280NT. Categorized by topic, gives Chinese then English entries. Front index is Chinese only; I’ve inked in the main category translations in English in the index. HC, . Leatherette-like cover, good condition, barely used.

G16. Chien Hong Multipurpose English-Chinese Dictionary. Softcover with clear vinyl slipcover; owner’s mark; $500NT. Virtually unused, good condition.

G17. Practical Chinese-English Encyclopedic Handbook, Li & Zhu. Ouya Shūjú.$380NT. Cover is mint; page edges & paper slightly yellowed, corner slightly soiled. Owner’s name/stamp.

G18. Far East English-English, English-Chinese Dictionary of Idioms and Phrases. 1364pp; each English entry has an English def., then a Chinese TC transl. Virtually unused, VG cond., np., owner’s name inside cover.

G19. A Practical Dictionary of Chinese Idioms, English Idioms, English Synonyms; S.S.Wei, The Practical English Press, HK. ppbk, little used, paper yellowed, cover creased. NT$250

G20. Mathew’s Chinese-English Dictionary, small print ed., HC, cover dirty, paper yellowed. Inner Chinese title page missing. np.


SIMPLIFIED (SC):

H1.Practical Chinese Reader, Books I, II, III (elementary); IV, V (intermediate)
These have vocab, readings, and exercises. Paperback, HKD 85, 80, 72, 72 and 38, resp., unused, in good shape, rather better paper and covers than the PRC ones above.

H2. Modern Chinese, Beginner’s Course, Reading Comprehension. PRC, 282pp, 24yuan; and Modern Chinese, Beginner’s Course book 3, bent cover, 25yuan

H3. Intermediate Chinese, vols 1, 2 -- 347 and 400pp, 50yuan each
PRC printings, unused but poor shape

H4. Hello – Practical Dialogues for Home, School, Social Life and Travel: 476pp, 52yuan, highlighting throughout.

H5. Chinese For Today (Beijing Languages Institute) series:
Book 2, 428pp, 190HKD
Book 2 Reader, 103pp, 46HKD
Book 1 Exercises, 137pp, 55HDK
all unused, good condition

H6. Understanding China through Newspaper Readings, Elementary Level
135pp, 20RMB, Beijing Univ. Press, unused

H7. Essential Grammar for Modern Chinese, Helen T. Lin, Cheng & Tsui, 308pp, added stiff plastic cover; some pages loose.

H8. Introductory Chinese – Reading Comprehension, Sinolingua, 344pp. 34 yuan

H9. Modern Chinese Beginner’s Course 2; 218pp, 25yuan, condition poor

H10. Chinese for Social Interaction in 40 lessons, Sinolingua, 478pp, no price

H11. Conversational Chinese for Business, Guo Li, Beijing Univ. Press, 115pp, 10yuan (actually, has a lot of travel-related vocab too).

H12. Modern Chinese, A Second Course, Beijing University; lessons 31-72. 471pp, Dover, $8.

H13. Intermediate Chinese Course, Du Rong, Beijing University Press, 2 vols, 5 cassette tapes, SC with pinyin in vocab sections and index.

H.14 Simplified Chinese Characters, Peng. A brief introduction for those who already know traditionals. I have penciled in the pronunciations and meanings, which he neglects. 128pp, no price

H15. Chinese-English Communication in Chinese, all in SC with full pinyin & English, 149pp, 12yuan

H16. A Series of Short Chinese Readings, 4 volumes, about 165pp each, bilingual; vocab lists by each reading have pinyin; no price,

H17. Hefty 2-vol Chinese English Dictionary, 漢英大辭典, Shanghai Jiaotong Univ. Press. Very nice set, SC, ordered by pīnyīn. Pīnyīn is given for each subentry too. Has good technical content, all the scientific terms, etc.. Trad. char. given parenthetically for main entries where structurally different, but not for those with standard, predictable simplifications (e.g., 言-side, etc.). OK paper (for PRC), mostly un-yellowed. Baredly used, but slightly dirtied edges. Covered in plastic after purchase. First and last inner coverleaf pages are spotted, but main pages are not. 248 yuan for the set.

H18. A Classified and Illustrated Chinese-English Dictionary, Guangzhou Institute of Foreign Languages, Joint Publications. HK$35. HC, plasticized, good condition, owner’s name; paper slightly aged. Organized by topic.

H19. The Chinese-English Dictionary, Heian. softcover, plasticized. Used, slightly soiled, edges yellowed, 1st inner (blank) page torn, corners on preface pp. clipped so opens easily to radical index. A few margin notes; is simplified only, but many char’s have inked trad. vsns. next to them.

H20. A Modern Chinese-English Dictionary, Hai Feng, Oxford Univ. Press. Simpl. only. Hardcover, good condition, owner’s name/stamp. Virtually unused. np.

H21. Chinese Dictionary of Verbs with English Explanations, Heian, softcover, plasticized, plus reinforcing clear tape, tape edges dirtied; paper edges yellowed. Inside pretty clean, very usable.np.

H22. The Oxford-Duden Pictorial English & Chinese Dictionary. Softcover; stiff clear plastic cover added. Virtually unused. Bookmark taped in to mark index. Owner’s name/stamp. np.

Group I. Books for learning about oracle bones and the origins of Chinese characters (etymology)

I1. (The classic, definitive) Sources of Shang History, Keightley. large hardcover format 281pp, out of print, 1st edition, with mylar-wrapped slipcover. Very Good condition, asking $120 US. This is THE authoritative introduction to jiaguology, highly recommended.

I2. Set of books by Hsu, Jinhsiung 許進雄 aka James Hsu, on Chinese etymology (I have since acquired a much more scholarly library of oracle bone rubbings, compendia, and dictionaries, and am less interested in reading Hsu’s, which are more suitable as introductions for the beginning to intermediate reader on this topic. Third entry is 2 vols. in ENGLISH.):

許進雄 Xu3 Jìnxióng (*James Chin-hsiung Hsu; 1988). 中國古代社會: 文字與人類學的透視 (修訂本), (ancient Chinese society from the perspective of writing and anthropology – revised edition) 台灣商務印書館 Taiwan Shāngwù Publ., 台北 Taipei, email: cptw@ms12.hinet.net. An earlier, Chinese version of the 2nd entry below, the 1996 English version. New.$580NT. Asking $500.

許進雄 Xu3 Jìnxióng (*James Chin-hsiung Hsu; 1995). 古文諧聲字根 gǔwén xíeshēng zìgēn (ancient phonophoric roots), 台灣商務印書館 Taiwan Shāngwù Publ., 台北 Taipei. ISBN 957-05-1174-5. New, softcover, $800NT, asking $600. All in Chinese, but the format makes it quite usable anyway, as each entry simply lists the OB form, then the bronze form(s), then seal, the Shuōwén definition, and comments. There’s no lengthy text to read.

許進雄 Xu3 Jìnxióng (*James Chin-hsiung Hsu), The Written Word in China, Vols. I & II. (1996) Privately published by Mr. 陳福成 Chén Fúchéng (*Tan Hock Seng (sic)), Hong Kong. This is a further revised version, in ENGLISH, of Dr. Hsu’s earlier two Chinese editions (see 1988 entry above for revised Chinese edition). The English version is thus the most up-to-date of the three. Dr. Hsu, who recently retired from National Taiwan University (台大), explores at length, and in a very introductory fashion, a broad variety of the environmental, historical, religious, military, political, economic and sociocultural contexts within which the Chinese writing system arose and evolved, and sprinkles each chapter with a few explanations of ancient and modern (traditional) character forms which fit into those contexts (with pinyin and tone marks added). His treatment of the written word, nominally the focus of these two books, ends up dwarfed by the broad survey of the milieux of ancient China, making these volumes better suited to the beginning student of Chinese and casual reader on China, and less of interest to readers interested in a concise source of etymological information. At the end of each chapter, the graphic histories of the characters mentioned are summarized (Shāng, Zhoū, Qín, Hàn, modern) in chart form, without comment, accompanied by many interesting illustrations.
This is obviously intended as a readable first introduction to the topic, avoiding scholarly debates. Not available commercially.

許進雄 Xu3 Jìnxióng (*James Chin-hsiung Hsu; 2002). 簡明中國文字學 (修訂版) (a concise introduction to Chinese philology) 學海出版社, 台北。 ISBN 957-614-192-3. This 265-page book is a handy and concise introduction, in Chinese (traditional char.), to the Chinese writing system. In it, Dr. Hsu makes some interesting arguments (pp. 14-5) which compare character shapes to other archaeological finds, and conclude that they may be taken as evidence that the writing system may have originated as early as the 仰韶 Yǎngsháo culture period.

[xuechengfeng]

Holy crap!

I will PM you with all the ones I want a little later tonight, save them for me!!!!!!!!!!!

[kentsuarez]

OK; and after that, I'll copy the remaining list to a textbooks for sale posting both here and in Forumosa.com (since I'm in Taipei).

As you can see, I tend to go overboard on things.

[xuechengfeng]

Message sent.

[carlo]

You have a Chinese edition of the Functional Grammar by Li and Thompson? I didn't know it had ever been translated. I saw a copy in English ages ago but didn't buy it, as I disliked the idea of a Chinese grammar in English without a single Chinese character in it. Is this a Taiwanese edition? Still in print? And, is it any good?

I have seen a few graded schoolbooks printed in Singapore that look very good (advanced, yet not exclusively meant for native speakers). The publisher is at www.goodbooks.com.sg. Anyone in Singapore cares to comment (or start a trade in used books - I have plenty of those too)?

[kentsuarez]

Yes, I bought a copy here in Taiwan to lend to my conversation partner, so that she could read up on how to explain grammar (figuring that this would end up helping me). I haven't read it myself, and don't know whether it is any good, but as the years rolled by, I've learned grammar through immersion (10 years in Taiwan), and no longer feel the need for such a book. However, other than the sun-struck spines, the books are essentially pretty new and I wouldn't want to sell them at a big loss, as I might end up using them if I keep them. I listed them (along with a couple others) more in case someone out there is interested and can't find these titles. Your point on wanting to read it in Chinese is a very good one, of course. And having both side by side, so you can read the English when you have trouble with the Chinese, or to verify your understanding of the Chinese, was also part of the reason I bought both.

[carlo]

I agree, most of my 'grammar instinct' comes from first-hand experience in reading and writing rather than abstract linguistic prescription. As you said, nothing beats reading a book you like. However, I sometimes happen to find linguistics an interesting subject in itself. I have read Chao Yuan-ren 'A Grammar of Spoken Chinese' (in the most recent mainland translation, 汉语口语语法), a couple of papers by Chinese linguists, and recently I picked up a 语音学教程 (a slim college-level book for beginners on phonology, IPA etc. with examples from European languages AND Chinese dialects). Sometimes, I can learn very useful stuff along the way.

What's the title of the Chinese translation anyway?

[kentsuarez]

I went home, jotted down the publisher, and didn't check the Chinese title.
It's 文鶴 (Crane) Publ., Taipei, translated from the English original. I'll get the Chinese title later, sorry. (I always check forums at work, not home.)

[yonglan]

Xuechengfeng, congratulations on your Monkey!

If you go to http://gregbosco.tri...nesebooksf.html and scroll down until you get to 'ertongshu' ('children's books') written in characters (can't type Chinese at the moment). You'll find a long list of them. If the Lady in the Painting you are about to start reading is Fred Wang's wonderful rendition, I would be remiss if I did not tell you that it will be a while before you can tackle children's books. Actually, you can find adult books that are easier than many Children's books (at least the ones from Taiwan), though the ones from Taiwan are great fun. Hang in there and before long you will do it. The nice thing about reading the ones from Taiwan is that once you know Zhuyin (see below) it allows you to easily look up a character you don't know the pronunciation of or just read through it without looking it up but seeing the pronunciation.

bo po mo fo, aka Zhuyin Fuhao is here
http://pinyin.info/r...mofo/basic.html
There are 37 letters and just a few combinations that aren't obvious. It's great for one's pronunciation. I so very highly recommend it.

[rockytriton]

wow, are those prices in 人民币 or 美金???

[taryn]

I've been self-studying for a bit and I'm about to buy a couple of readers from betterchinese.com. Their stuff is SO cute! You can sign up to use it online too. The cool thing about their stuff is that it's designed for people in non-Chinese environments so they don't really assume any cultural info and heck, the bouncing cartoon characters are a welcome break from grammar study. Auuggghh!

[baining tang]

better Chinese for kids has good leveled readers! Each book has a bunch of short stories. Also axillary books are available! I think they go from k-12 and the site is all in English! Also reasonable prices!