To be or not to be a Chinese Translator

[roddy]

Split the posts on machine translation off to another topic.

[yueni]

Somewhat related to the topic at hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zTLg-Ax2M4&feature=youtu.be

 

A TEDx Monterey speech given by two interpreting professors at MIIS. Professor Barry Olsen interprets English, Spanish and Russian; Professor Laura Burian interprets English and Mandarin. This presentation is given with consecutive and also simultaneous interpretation.

 

=) So if anybody is interested in having a taste of interpreting, here you go.

[brucehuang]

Hey guys, I just thought I would update this topic. I have been enrolled in the MTI program at SISU for two full semesters already and I would like to share some of my experiences here. I'm just gonna rant in Chinese since I've already posted on my facebook and I really don't feel like rewritting it in English. This one is gonna be ALL negetive, but yet I do have positive things to say about this program (very few, but yeah I do have some...) Anyways, if you are considering about this program and you can't read my broken Chinese, then you need to work on your Chinese before considering applying.


一年啦，来一次总吐槽！让大家看看上外高翻院的真面目，美国读书的童鞋们，看了才会知道自己有多么地幸福！

这就是尼玛上外高翻院！

一个星期最起码一次，无缘无故的改课。老师可以说不来就不来，“紧急通知”（2小时内的）平均一个星期发一次，让你来上课就必须马上到场，有时候让你马上到场了到了门口才发现通知说又改期了。（最起码一个星期一次）。可以整个星期的停课，为了给学院撑面子，搞一大堆有用没用的“专家”讲座，让大家必须去听，不管你有事没事。还发邮件威胁大家，如果不到场就期末考试扣分，结果尼玛每次去了都没人记考勤。放假神马的从来不到最后一分钟不告诉你上课安排，有一次放长假，擦我按照原计划头一天回来，准备第二天继续上课，尼玛到了飞机上准备关机了，突然接到一个“紧急通知”说继续放假一个星期。来几个专家开会，就要求大家报名参加搬桌子搬椅子，接飞机端茶倒水，专家们一来就要求大家踊跃报名参加志愿者，擦，第三天发现有些没人报名的就尼玛发邮件通知这些人开会期间不得离校，有工作安排，不报名参加志愿者的，就要你们全部去做记录员，反正尼玛课不上，你们也不能闲着。专家从来都是最后一分钟到场通知大家，反正停课的的课时要另外找时间补回来的，那个时间就由不得你说了。很多”专家“讲座都是讲了尼玛几遍的了，但是为了”让我们学习“又让大家必须再去听同样的东西一次，而且法语那边小语种的课更尼玛夸张，二年级和一年级一起上课，上同样上过的东西
老师尼玛永远是正确的，你敢问问题或者说表达异议就是尼玛不尊重老师（当然，如果你长得不像中国人呢，那么你就自动成为Native English Speaker了，那么你所说的都是对的了，无论你是墨西哥人也好，乌克兰人也好。），同学老师都用异样的眼光看着你，还有人骂你。老师你尼玛明显误人子弟的时候你也不能去点出来，敢的话就要被鄙视。今天说你1+1=2是错的，尼玛怎么回事儿啊？怎么没点创意啊？明天你说1+1=3的时候就又说你，尼玛怎么这么基本的道理都不懂呢？
举例说明：有一次一个很牛叉（呵呵）的老师为了一个单词公然课堂上说我是假洋鬼。。。她告诉大家Apartment和Condo没区别的，我就告诉他在美国Apartment是出租的，Condo是买的，她直接就说，那里可能啊，你这种假洋鬼怎么知道，接着就转过头去问那个同班同学老墨（墨西哥来的国际友人）。。。问她美国的房子市场是怎样的（从未在美国生活过的）

去略表不满的结果：官方领导式发言，指着你鼻子说你不是，让你从自己身上找原因，反正说神马都是学院不是perfect，我们的program是特意设计成这样的，作为一个专业的人士，你应该具备应对所有变化的能力，如果做不到就是你的不对。去找院长稍微抗议一下就说，这些破事儿算啥事儿啊，don't be like a winning bitch （原话）。

听说过有达标指数的募捐吗？
班长一个班一个班一个寝室一个寝室的去收钱，每人需要指定收多少”捐款“一边收你的钱还一边给你说，你是自愿的。

听说过不到20个人开会，安排60-70个人做相关的准备和后勤工作吗？

会议室外厅，从早到晚把守着大概十个人端茶倒水冲咖啡，会议室里面安排大概又是十个人负责照相、录像、调灯光、放PPT。会议室旁边安排大概有20个人做同传、逐字记录（顺便加一句，现场所有人都会英文，但是为了显示上外的实力，现场配备英、法、中同传，忘记是否有俄语同传了）。另外场外酒店安排两人24小时守着，为了方便服务“贵宾”们的住宿中可能遇到的问题。未到来之前，提前两天24小时轮流守着几个人，随时奔赴浦东国际机场接机！（据说还有半夜三点打车去机场的）。会议之后的“文化考察”安排了大概5-6个人陪着“贵宾”们到上海各大景点去”考察“。

PS，顺便说一句，天朝式的开会，“贵宾”们大概有一半是来开会一半是来玩，现场还有3个人缺席，大家懂的。

这尼玛就是停课一个星期，让大家必须”积极参加“和”踊跃报名志愿者“的
“*****大会*****”

从俄罗斯、法国、德国、还有一大堆叫不出名字的国家请来一堆“专家”

好有面子啊。。。


I'll come back and write some positive things about GIIT of SISU later, after I speak to 上海市教委 (Shanghai City Board of Education）today. They are sending someone to talk to me about my opinon as an American 公派生（scholarship student somehow sounds different in Chinese).

[陳德聰]

Somehow seems different from your original appraisal. I'm glad to know that OP's original experience can be corroborated here after having been refuted by the same poster.

 

The difference between "apartment" and "condo" aside (here, people use the two interchangeably in colloquial speech, though there is a legal difference), I am disappointed to see that this kind of thing happens in a classroom where language precision should be one of the main focal points.

 

I've never had a 院长 use poor English to call me names before, that definitely takes the cake.

[imron]

I suppose better to be a winning bitch than a losing one

[gato]

院长 seems to be a fan of Jesse of "Breaking Bad": http://www.breakingbitch.com/

[yueni]

I find your experience both sad and hilarious. At the same time, there's the inevitable feeling of "Oh well, it's China..." that I had every time the same damn thing happened to me in my time at BLCU. Of course, I wasn't a MA student then, I was just a language student, so I didnt' have the kind of expectations out of my education there like I did with my graduate studies. Further, I look Chinese, so my poor American/Caucasian-looking classmates were the ones who always got co-opted as "自愿者", all last minute with high expectations, of course. (Oh, China...)

 

At the same time, I also feel that just by being ethnically Chinese, but not native Chinese language speakers puts one at a severe disadvantage in this profession in China, simply by virtue of how appearance-focused Chinese people can be.

 

Look forward to hearing about your experience at SISU when you have the time, now that your first year is over and done with. Perhaps while you're at it, you can also answer some questions I have:

• What are the courses you are supposed to be taking? (Is there a fixed path? What are the expectations?)
• What sorts of practice sessions do you have? (Do you do group practices? My classmates who studied TI in China said that all practice was individual practice.)
• Does having the scholarship make your time spent (wasted?) in the program worthwhile? Or do you think you would've been better off at a different program, say at MIIS/Newcastle/Bath...
• What is your current level of comfort at interpreting at this point? Do you think you would be comfortable doing liaison interpreting or perhaps consec for a business meeting/conference presentation in a non-technical field or even a field you are familiar with?

Your 院长 pretty much takes the cake, though, I have to say!

[Song Hu]

@ yueni

 

Thank you very much for the extremely interesting video!!   I always wanted to become a translator! I feel that translation is the tool for people all around the world to communicate, resolve their differences and work for a common future and I will try to contribute to that goal as much as I can and give my best to become an acclaimed translator!!

I have been accepted for a full Chinese Government Scholarship at BLCU and I will start my studies, including one year preparatory courses, this September. Even though my first choice was SISU and I was quite disappointed that I didn't get in, however after reading this post and the encouraging words from some other people and watching that video, I start feeling that maybe BLCU is for my best!

 

Anyway, thank you very much yueni for that video!

[Simon_CH]

I often attend Business and political conferences with simultaneous interpretation, and find the Chinese-English Interpretation more often than not somewhat lacking. So purely from a customer's perspective if you like there is room for improvement on the English front. I cannot judge the quality of English - Chinese, but here again I have received very mixed reviews from colleagues.

 

So I wish the best of luck to those of you who persevere and provide top notch intepretation.

[yueni]

Just poking this thread to see if @brucehuang will update us on his thoughts of studies at SISU, and to see if @simplet has started at BLCU yet.

 

 

On another note, I recently completed my first freelance simul assignment, and I thought I'd give a rough overview of what happened, as this is kind of an interesting real world look at the whole process of getting a freelance assignment, preparing for it, and then actually doing the assignment.

 

I was contacted by a former MIIS classmate 3 weeks prior to the conference date to see if I would be available to work this particular event in her place, because she was already busy that weekend. I accepted, and then took over negotiations with the client after the introduction. What I found particularly interesting, was that the entire process was completed over 微信, and we didn't have a formal contract, but agreed that we would use our 微信 discussions as a sort of "informal contract". I was emailed a rough agenda with the names and affiliations of all participants, with the speakers needing to be interpreted highlighted in the document.

 

My prep work was easy enough: 1. doing research on the conference topic in both Chinese & English; 2. researching all the speakers, their affiliated organizations, and looking for previous speeches they'd done on the topic of the conference; 3. practicing simul like crazy.

 

The conference itself was supposed to be a half-day thing, with about 2 hours of speeches requiring simultaneous interpretation. My classmate had actually already located a booth partner for me, so both of us set a date to meet up a few days prior to the conference to discuss how we would work together in the booth. Ultimately though, the organizer contacted us 1 week prior to the conference date, and said that the interpreting requirements had changed, and only one 30 minute speech needed interpretation (E-C), so only 1 interpreter was required. I ended up working solo that day due to this change.

 

My duties were to interpret consecutively at a pre-conference banquet the evening before, and then the next morning, to interpret simultaneously at the conference itself. 5 days prior to the event start, I received drafts of the speeches I would be interpreting consecutively at the banquet. I contacted the organizer thanking her for them, and then asked for any draft/outline/powerpoint slides/topic about the speech I was supposed to interpret simultaneously the day after. She promised to ask the speaker for them. 2 days prior to the event, I once again contacted the organizer asking for any information about the speech I would be doing simul for. Nothing.

 

On the day of the banquet, I arrived a few hours early and met up with the organizer in person. She walked me through how the event was going to run, and gave me the final draft of the speech that needed to be interpreted consecutively that night. I asked about the simul speech, and she told me that they had been asking the speaker for his speech, but he'd not yet written it yet. She said she'd try asking him again when he arrived at the banquet.

 

At the banquet itself, I was able to locate the next day's speaker, so I went up to him and introduced myself and then asked if I could have any information about his speech the next day so I would be able to provide a quality interpretation. (This took place about 12 hours before he was supposed to speak the next day.) His reply: "I, too, would like to know what I'll be talking about tomorrow..."

 

So, I would like to reference the following exchange that occurred earlier in this thread: (@Lu #143)

 

I know in real world interpreting you never know what’s going to come at you, but you at least know the subject a day (or more) in advance. I would never take an interpreting job if the company couldn’t tell me when, where, or what the speech was going to be about

 

I disagree that in real world interpretering you never know what's coming. At the very least you always know roughly who is speaking (mayor of a small town, director of such-and-such company, professor specialised in X-ology) and the subject, so that narrows it down enourmously. Furthermore, the person speaking generally knows what they want to say: they may have the whole speach written out, or a powerpoint presentation, or just speaking points, but most of the time they will have something prepared. It's in everyone's best interest to have the interpretation go well, so as long as it's not something secret and everyone involved is not extremely busy, they might send the interpreter a copy of whatever is on paper.

 

Sometimes, you can do all the due diligence in the world, and still come face-to-face with this sort of situation. I was extremely prepared, especially for this particular speaker, as I'd located a previous speech he'd given on a similar topic, and had been practicing simul on that speech. Preparedness is really all you have at this point, and even if you keep chasing people down for materials, sometimes, there are no materials to be had. Granted, I did know who my speaker was, and where and when the whole thing was going to take place, but even so, there are so many variables when you have to walk into the booth and do simul with very little to work off of.

 

On the day of the conference itself, I arrived about an hour and a half early so I could work with the sound engineers to test the equipment. When I arrived, the organizer told me that I would actually have to interpret two speeches instead of only one. The speech I was originally supposed to interpret was from English > Chinese. The new speech added on to the agenda was from Chinese > English. About 1 hour prior to the start of the conference, I was handed a 20-30 page powerpoint presentation of the new speech, so I prepped that until the speaker I was doing E-C simul for arrived, about 30 min prior to the start of the conference. I immediately pounced on him for more speech information, and by then he had a rough outline of what he wanted to speak about, so I took about 4 pages of consec notes on the content of his speech, and then rushed back to the booth to prep.

 

At the start of the conference, the moderator made introductory remarks ~5 min. I did not interpret this. I did a rough interpretation of his introduction of the first speaker (the suddenly added speech I was to interpret), and then interpreted her speech. When she finished, the moderator introduced the next speaker (the original simul I had to do). I switched language channels, and then began interpretation on his speech. When he ended his speech. I ceased interpretation. In total, I did about ~45 min of simul in two different directions, with little time for prep.

 

After the fact, a fellow interpreter told me that he'd never accept this kind of working condition and would've refused to interpret the last minute addition. It would've been better if I had had a booth partner to spell me, because 45 minutes of straight simul is just killer. I definitely noticed a loss in quality towards the last half of my interpretation, due to fatigue. I wasn't converting English into Chinese fast enough, and my brain was just too tired to continue.

 

@Simon_CH, this might be part of the reason why interpretation quality is so variable. Interpreters might do their best to get all the information they need to get the job done well, but sometimes the organizers or the speakers just don't provide the materials we need in a timely manner, or require us to do work under subpar conditions. In that scenario, the interpreter can only do the best they can, and sometimes, their best is simply not good enough.

[Angelina]

Never never never work if you are not supposed to have a booth partner! 

(NB I have only studied interpreting, I don't have any experience).

[Lu]

Yueni, thanks for that write-up. I don't think we disagree really. I've never done simultaneous interpretation, and the amount of information I have varies a lot, but your experience sounds quite typical. You prepared the hell out of it with all the information you had, and thus you did the best job you could. I sometimes get the entire speech written out and followed almost to the word, sometimes a powerpoint presentation, sometimes just the rough content but I know what organisation it is so I can look up the relevant info online.

And occasionally I only get a very rough outline and then I have to see whether that's acceptable for me. Recently I interpreted at a wedding, and though the giver of the speech only gave me very minimal information I judged that it wouldn't be too difficult, and I was right. A while ago I was asked to interpret a very difficult subject at the very last moment and I told them that I could do it but I couldn't do it well. They were just happy I could come at all and in the end it actually went quite okay.

[Simon_CH]

 

@Simon_CH, this might be part of the reason why interpretation quality is so variable. Interpreters might do their best to get all the information they need to get the job done well, but sometimes the organizers or the speakers just don't provide the materials we need in a timely manner, or require us to do work under subpar conditions. In that scenario, the interpreter can only do the best they can, and sometimes, their best is simply not good enough.

 

Our company often organises or partakes in large conferences and official events, and more often than not the interpreters (all Chinese so far) who do both C-E and E-C are hardly interested in getting instructions or material in advance. In several occasions either the organisers, speakers or panelists had to insist on them to meet and receive instructions, and get prior translations of key vocabulary done. Not great work ethics despite this being very high level events.

 

It always seemed like we took the quality of interpretation and the precision of language, scientific terms etc. much more seriously than they did. Obviously the organisers don't hire some language students but professionals from the top schools who regularly work for the Chinese gov.

[Lu]

more often than not the interpreters (all Chinese so far) who do both C-E and E-C are hardly interested in getting instructions or material in advance. In several occasions either the organisers, speakers or panelists had to insist on them to meet and receive instructions, and get prior translations of key vocabulary done.

That sounds weird to me and I agree, not very good work ethic. Do you have any idea how well they did at the actual conference?

Someone told me a while ago that actually, the more experienced and professional the translator, the more information they demand beforehand. That made me feel better about my own need for preparation.

[angeia]

 

@Simon_CH

Our company often organises or partakes in large conferences and official events, and more often than not the interpreters (all Chinese so far) who do both C-E and E-C are hardly interested in getting instructions or material in advance. In several occasions either the organisers, speakers or panelists had to insist on them to meet and receive instructions, and get prior translations of key vocabulary done. Not great work ethics despite this being very high level events.

 

Maybe these interpreters went to Shanghai International Studies University, since they give you 2.5 years of training that involves not knowing *anything* about what you're going to interpret beforehand. 

 

In all seriousness, I think that Chinese schools might have this attitude of, "if you can't do it on a whim, then you shouldn't be an interpreter" and forces that mindset on the students.  Maybe by graduation they feel like they have this standard of having to "interpret anything at a moment's notice." When I studied at SISU, I felt like a failure for not being able to interpret nuclear energy or a specific change in trade customs on a whim.

 

I think this standard is far out of line and it actually results in loss for both parties (the interpreter doesn't know the content, and the client's message isn't being properly relayed).

 

Later I talked to professional interpreters that said they sometimes spend a month, with stacks of books and documents beforehand in order to properly executive a high level interpretation.

[yueni]

@Angelina

When I was contracted for 2 hours of interpretation, I had a booth partner, but they changed that requirement and only asked for one speech to be interpreted (30 min duration), which was why I went in without one. 30 min is a little long for simul, but it is within acceptable bounds, and I've done it before, and knew I could hang on for that long. Obviously, they changed it on me last minute, and so that's why I ended up with the 45 min simul. I wouldn't do it that way again, but the organizers seemed rather disorganized, and I also chalk it up on my side with inexperience in dealing with these kinds of situations. I'll be meeting up with some of my professors, so I'm hoping to ask their advice in these kinds of situations. =)

 

 

@Simon_CH
Our company often organises or partakes in large conferences and official events, and more often than not the interpreters (all Chinese so far) who do both C-E and E-C are hardly interested in getting instructions or material in advance. In several occasions either the organisers, speakers or panelists had to insist on them to meet and receive instructions, and get prior translations of key vocabulary done. Not great work ethics despite this being very high level events.

 

 

That is insane to me. There is no way I could ever do any form of simul (or even consec) without prior prep. I spent 2.5 weeks preparing for the event I was interpreting for, and I had zero materials to do that preparation, especially for the simul. That is irresponsible, and shows a shockingly lax work ethic.

 

I definitely agree with @Lu and @angeia. Experienced professionals spend weeks, months, or even longer preparing for a conference. The reason fees for experienced interpreters are so high are not for the piddling number of hours they spend at the podium/in the booth interpreting, but for the dozens, or even hundreds, of hours that they spend preparing prior to the event. One of my professors spent one year preparing for a talk on classical Chinese artwork.

 

At MIIS, during our second year, preparation is definitely emphasized. There's no way I could show up in class or at a conference and just wing a speech on trade embargoes without some kind of prior prep. There are so many things that could go wrong doing stuff like that. When I speak with my former classmates and other former MIIS alum, the first thing we all complain about when we're talking shop is how annoying it is trying to squeeze out resources for prep from our clients. Any client that offers us resources without prompting, we consider a miracle.

 

@angeia

I don't know if what you experienced is a Chinese schools thing, or a first-year interpreting student thing, as you weren't there for very long. At MIIS, first year students don't generally get a ton of information for prep due to how "general" the topics are, and how the topics we are interpreting in class are considered "general knowledge". Of course, for the students, YMMV, but that's how things work. The focus in the first year tends to be language skills and interpreting technique. Second year is when we start delving more deeply into specific topics, and that's when we do have to do prep work. Second year is when it is assumed we already have decent language skills and a good foundation of interpreting fundamentals, so the focus is now on how we prepare for the market, and what sorts of things are expected of us as interpreters.

 

I'm interested to hear @brucehuang and @simplet's take on the teaching at SISU & at BLCU. In particular @brucehuang, since he should be starting his second year there!

[Simon_CH]

 

That sounds weird to me and I agree, not very good work ethic. Do you have any idea how well they did at the actual conference?

Someone told me a while ago that actually, the more experienced and professional the translator, the more information they demand beforehand. That made me feel better about my own need for preparation.

 

I agree I found it rather offensive even, given that one of the speakers, head of Asia-Pacific of a very well-known international service provider insisted on meeting her beforehand, and she almost had to be dragged to the hotel to discuss the content with him. I did not have the feeling that she translated the (very) complex topic of trade barriers and free trade agreements very well at all, though I got mixed replies from Chinese colleagues.

 

It always seemed that European participants valued precision of language and terminology a lot more than the Chinese participants, but also the interpreters ever did. That's my experience from conferences, events, official meetings and forums so far, we often have to convince the organisers to get the interpreters to meet panelists and speakers...

 

So in short so far local interpreters seem to have a similar quality orientation as the rest of the economy.. "more or less", "good enough", "doesn't matter", "they don't understand anyway"

[Angelina]

 

 

When I was contracted for 2 hours of interpretation, I had a booth partner, but they changed that requirement and only asked for one speech to be interpreted (30 min duration), which was why I went in without one. 30 min is a little long for simul, but it is within acceptable bounds, and I've done it before, and knew I could hang on for that long. Obviously, they changed it on me last minute, and so that's why I ended up with the 45 min simul. I wouldn't do it that way again, but the organizers seemed rather disorganized, and I also chalk it up on my side with inexperience in dealing with these kinds of situations. I'll be meeting up with some of my professors, so I'm hoping to ask their advice in these kinds of situations. =)

 

My advice would be, if anything like this happens again, you should tell them you will bring a student who (without getting paid) will sit in the booth and help you out if anything goes wrong. 30 minutes is not 5 minutes.  

[Lu]

My advice would be, if anything like this happens again, you should tell them you will bring a student who (without getting paid) will sit in the booth and help you out if anything goes wrong.

Is that wise? You'd basically be giving them two simultaneous translators for the price of one. Wouldn't it be better to instead insist on a (paid, of course) booth partner? I have never done simultaneous translation but I agree that 30 minutes is not 5 minutes.

[Angelina]

I am not suggesting that the other interpreter should actually do any interpreting. She/he should be there just in case.

This is a weird situation because yueni had already agreed to work for them. If insisting that they hire a booth partner doesn't work out, what is the other option?