Not sure if this sentence makes sense?

[Rowan]

Hey,

 

I'm taking Mandarin classes in college and have a very rudimentary level. I am supposed to translate this sentence and I don't know if I did it correctly or not:

 

"Please turn on the light. I want to see if there is anything on the wall."

 

请把电灯开了. 我要看一看 墙上有没有甚么. 

 

(Qing ba diandeng kai le. Wo yao kan yi kan qiang-shang you mei you shemme.)

 

I'm not sure if I should use 要是 or if so where to put it.

 

Thanks for any help.

[Meng Lelan]

You don't need the 要是, in Chinese that means "if" as in if this happens, then a consequence or result will happen. The English "if" can be used for a somewhat wider purpose, as in a situation where you don't know something is really there or not. 

[Vivi MENG]

楼上真是个好老师啊。。。好细心好耐心。。。

Rowan, I think your translation makes sense as a whole, but it looks strange to me. 

This is my version: 请把电灯打开，我想看（一）看墙上有没有什么。

The word "了" often delivers the perfect tense, may not proper for something that is going to happen. 

e.g. 我吃了= I have eaten. 

[tooironic]

了 should not be used here because the verb (turn on the light) is not completed (the sentence is an imperative, a 祈使句, requesting that something be done, not describing something which has already been done).

 

Also, I would add 东西 at the end to make it sound more natural: 请把电灯打开，我想看看墙上有没有什么东西。

[Rowan]

Thanks for the help guys. 

[dwq]

I believe 了 can be used with 請 for something that is going to happen. How do these sound?

請把桌上的文具收拾了。

請吃了這片蛋糕。

[Vivi MENG]

re dwq

 

I'd like to say 请 and 了 together are not necessarily a set to express a certain meaning. 

 

吃了这片蛋糕 still makes sense without the 请. It is just not very polite, and more sounds like parents' talk.

[tooironic]

@dwq Both those sentences sound strange to me. 了 is not required in either one, as the verbs are not complete, nor is there an implication of a change of state.

[dwq]

Hmm. To me 請把桌上的文具收拾。sounds like an incomplete sentence though.

Anyway, my point is that for "了 for verb being complete", the action is not necessarily in the past, as you seem to say in #4. 現代漢語詞典 gives the example 你先去，我下了班就去。for an expected completion in the future.

[tooironic]

I never said it had anything to do with past, present or future. 了 does not indicate tense - Chinese doesn't even have it.

 

But you're right, the sentence does sound incomplete. Adding 一下 or 起來 would make it sound better.

[Michaelyus]

If you have 請, the action that is governed will always be non-complete, although it may depend on something which will be complete.

 

請把桌上的文具收拾。I'd have an 一下 or something there, but that's because of the 把: it needs a complement.

[Vivi MENG]

re dwq:

I agree with you. My point was 请 and 了 are not a set. Without 请，了 can still have a function of referring something in the future. Just as you mentioned, 你先去，我下了班就去。

In term of Rowan's example 请把电灯开了, I feel it is strange because in real life, we don't say like that. I think because open the light is a single motion.

However, in your example, 請把桌上的文具收拾了, makes more sense to me because 收拾文具 consists of a bundle of actions, and it could take a while. That is the difference. Language is so complete, my view is from my personal experience, just for your information. 

Umm, I wish my English could be better.   

[dwq]

I have nothing to add. Thanks everyone.

[Tiana]

I think dwq had the right idea, but being a non-native speaker (just like me ), it's not always easy to cite appropriate or correct examples. But sure, 了 is quite common in requests:

别走了！

别说了！

I also understand the reason for dwq to feel that 請把桌上的文具收拾 doesn't sound complete. Although the sentence is fine as it is, it may be more common to see a complement added to the verb:

請把桌上的文具收拾好.

[Nathan Mao]

FWIW, I would say:

請把桌上的文具收拾好。

 

The only way I would put a 了 is as part of a subordinate clause, like Michaelyus said, "although it may depend on something which will be complete"

How does this sound to the native speakers?

 

 

請把桌上的文具收拾好了才放盘子。

or (just for the sake of 才/就 practice):

請把桌上的文具收拾好了就放盘子。

 

For you intermediate non-native speakers, how does changing 才 to 就 change the meaning of the sentence?

[Tiana]

請把桌上的文具收拾好了才放盘子。

or (just for the sake of 才/就 practice):

請把桌上的文具收拾好了就放盘子。

 

I don't think you need to use 了 in these sentences; and for structures like that of your sentences, I would use 先...再 instead of either 才 or 就.

[Vivi MENG]

 

請把桌上的文具收拾好了才放盘子。

or (just for the sake of 才/就 practice):

請把桌上的文具收拾好了就放盘子。

MAO, 我觉得在这里有没有‘了’都可以，取决于个人的说话习惯。

但是这个“才”有点奇怪，一般会说：請把桌上的文具收拾好了再放盘子。

[OneEye]

Vivi, the post is helpful, but you ought to post in English, except for examples. Some people reading this thread may not be able to understand your post otherwise.

 

This is an English-language forum about Chinese. Posts and their titles should be mostly in English, except in sections specifically for practicing Chinese. Obviously the use of some Chinese is necessary for examples, etc, but a non-speaker of Chinese should still be able to understand the purpose of your post.

[Nathan Mao]

@Vivi Meng,

I agree that in the example of setting the table, the use of 才 seems a little strange.

I was just trying to emphasize the grammar pattern, and the impact of 才 versus 就.

 

I was trying to show how 才 creates a sequence where one action is completely contingent on another.  It isn't just a sequence order (first do this, then do the next), it is that something can done only after the first step is complete, after the conditions have met the correct standard.

Whereas in the same example, 就 shows more of a simple sequence order, or a preference of the speaker.

 

Consider:

Don't call me until after you get home.

versus:

Call me as soon as you get home.

 

你回家以后才给我打电话

你回家以后就给我打电话

 

or:

你换了衣服才做饭

versus

你换了衣服就做饭

 

The first is emphasizing "Don't start cooking until you change clothes!" (don't get those clothes dirty!)

The second is emphasizing to not wait around to start cooking, to get started on it quickly...the only delay is to change clothes.

 

The reason I wanted to emphasize this is that it is a different use of 才 and 就 than when you use 才 to indicate later than expected/desired and 就 as earlier than expected/desired.

[Vivi MENG]

Hi Mao! I understand the difference of 才 and 就 you trying to emphasize here. But my point was that 才 is not the exactly the word you should looking for to deliver the meaning. Instead, 再 should replace 才 here. (你换了衣服再做饭)。But the difference of 再 and 才 is so subtle that it is beyond my English level to explain it clearly ( so sad). Maybe you would like to look up for it.  

Maybe some of examples will get you inspired. These are some of sentences that seem more proper to me. 

 

Don't start cooking until you change clothes你换了衣服再做饭

Don't start cooking until I change clothes我换了衣服才/再做饭

You didn't call me until you've got home.你回家以后才给我打电话 ( you know what I mean here right?)

Don't call me until after you get home. 你回家以后再给我打电话。

 

你换了衣服才做饭 strange. It sounds like the speaker is complaining about the cook started too late, and he should not get changed at all. 

你回家以后才给我打电话 strange as well