Jealousy towards Westerners (from "other" Asians)

[Lu]

Cutting off communication is a common way of signaling a wish to not be romantically involved.

And here I thought awkwardly saying 'Oh... I'm flattered... But... you know... I like you, but not in that way... I'm sorry...' etc was the way to go. Especially if you're on the same campus or even in the same class.

Ah well. Someone who cuts you off from all social media and start gossiping about you when you ask her for lunch is not someone you want to get closer to anyway.

[gato]

Since we don't have all the facts, the safest advice is probably to recommend the OP to take it easy for a while.  That's probably a good idea regardless.  

[realmayo]

Since we don't have all the facts, the safest advice is probably to recommend the OP to take it easy for a while.  That's probably a good idea regardless.

 

Definitely. At least one party is misreading signals.

 

Also, there's been the suggestion on this thread that Korean female university students are meek mild traditional little creatures for whom it is a huge risk socially and personally to even talk to a big bad horny westerner -- I mean, I'm sure there's some truth in that applied to people from certain countries around the world, but I'm not sure it applies to Korean these days.

[Alex Whiteman]

Well, flirting or not, a lunch is a lunch, I could have asked a guy for all I care.

Also, the person that made the bigger mess (Japanese, not Korean) actually Wechatted me "Let's (meetup for dinner) tonight!" and then sent me her phone number. 
When I did get back to her it was to apologize and suggest any other day. . . but she had snapped already.

 

Apparently, a person that seems to have been involved here is that fellow countryman of her's who saw us talking and didn't like it:
A guy my age, who on top of a Chinese girlfriend or two (he says a different thing depending on who's listening) goes out of his way to contact girls of all ages/nationalities. Lately sulking - and having a months-long fixation with my physique or the girls I talk to - he's one of the very few people who know where my room is so as to come knock.
I wouldn't be surprised if he also were the guy blowing this out of proportion. . .
Ironically, I did ask and go lunch with this guy once. . .

One thing is true. I'm done with this.
I lost face for two girls I was merely curious about. . . definitely not worth it.
I have better prospects outside this environment anyway.
So yeah, laying low, they can say whatever they wish - I'm not going to confront a guy who in a month and a half is going back home to live with his parents; I have more interesting things to do.

___
 

So, recapitulating. . . the 7 cases are:

- Those two, where a mere invitation caused a (relative) mess.
- Those three, where we actually went and there were "bystander reactions"
- That one case where this girl was talking and asking my contact info and guys interfered
- Another really stupid case where we had to do this class "ask a person out" convo and I came up with these playful/flirty undertones (not sexual) and it was obvious it upset the Asian guys who were glaring like "how dare you?!" She was all smiles and hair twirling like we were flirting for real, a western girl also liked it, the laoshi was very pleased so dunno. . .

 

Always the same five people more or less trying to involve everyone else, have them see what a terrible thing this is. . .
As I said, and unlike Chinese, I haven't seen total strangers giving a hoot about who I interact with.

 - An eight case could be a friend of mine who actually had Korean guys walk up to Korean girls who had approached him to reprimand them. "They were screaming", he said. . .

 

- . . .and a ninth case, without yet going into Chinese people yet, was last year hanging out with a local girl (friend) in Thailand and getting looks and so on. . .

[Lanchong]

It sounds more like you're going to a high school than a university.

If I were you, I'd find a healthier environment in which to study and live.

[Alex Whiteman]

Yes, I think there's a difference between the "north-eastern" Asians here and where I was before.

The feeling I get here is that they are "brought", in packs, much like the professional expats that go on to form one-nationality bubbles. Most do not seem to have been to other places outside their own country and China. The communities they form are quite big, so they don't really ever "step out" of their culture.

The maturity level (for both genders) also seems to be a big step down from same-age people from the western countries (or at least from mine).

. . .but yeah, It was interesting for a while but I'm counting the days now.

[ZhangKaiRong]

I also met this kind of "overprotective" Korean/Japanese guys. They were annoying first, every time I wanted to go on a date with a Korean/Japanese girl, they immediately showed up and say that xy doesn't want to date Western guys.

I changed my strategy to handle these guys: I made friends with them. I asked them to have dinner together, showed up in their rooms packed up with some alcohol, played mahjong and go-stop/koi koi with them. Their attitude towards me changed a lot, in the second semester they even recommended me which girl should I have a date with, lol.

 

So I think the problem is an outsider-insider one. If they see you more or less one of them, then it's okay to talk to and meet those girls. Otherwise you should back off.

[Alex Whiteman]

I just spent a month at another university, doing a short term course. The classmates I had, to make friends with, and regarding this whole topic, were just awesome. I was even teased and encouraged to voice whether I liked this girl or another. Beyond me (cause I'm gun-shy now. . . and older anyway) I saw quite a bit of dating across cultures/races. . . without anyone getting angry or trying to intervene/interrupt and drag the girls away like they were cattle.
In fact, if I ever saw any of that "drama" again, it was in nightclubs on the part of one or two drunken Chinese guys - but nothing big.

However, here's the catch:
- Our group's core socializing "vibe" was predominately "Western", for example, speaking European languages outside the class, using American slang, high-fiving, etc. . .
- On average, there weren't more than a couple people per nationality; so there were no 1-culture/ethnicity bubbles/cliques.
- The aforementioned two countries represented less than 20% of our class (NOT 80%), mostly girls. Out of that 20%, those who could not speak English or felt otherwise uncomfortable simply removed themselves (to varying degrees, some gave it a shot then went back to sticking to "their own people"). . . and those who did come to our meetups/parties did so with an extroverted, positive attitude. 

[Johnny20270]

I also met this kind of "overprotective" Korean/Japanese guys. They were annoying first, every time I wanted to go on a date with a Korean/Japanese girl, they immediately showed up and say that xy doesn't want to date Western guys.

I changed my strategy to handle these guys: I made friends with them. I asked them to have dinner together, showed up in their rooms packed up with some alcohol, played mahjong and go-stop/koi koi with them. Their attitude towards me changed a lot, in the second semester they even recommended me which girl should I have a date with, lol.

 

So I think the problem is an outsider-insider one. If they see you more or less one of them, then it's okay to talk to and meet those girls. Otherwise you should back off.

 

 

Talk about being insecure! What a bunch of losers. (the other guys, not you ZhangKaiRong   )

[XuanWu]

if a girl takes the advice of a "fellow" co patriot about not hanging with foreigners, than that girl has no personality and really isnt worthy about.

 

About the girl who snaped, you should be happy that this happened. Imagine if you had an affair with that person and something went wrong

and then snaped, what she could do to you or her self. One worry less!

[studychinese]

Alex, if you don't mind me asking, which city are you in? I am guessing either Beijing or Qingdao.

 

I am a non-Korean that can speak Korean, and I have a lot of experience with Koreans both in Korea and overseas. I don't think that Alex is really misunderstanding anything here. The Korean guys are clockblocking Alex, and succeeding.

 

In Korea dating is like a war. Korean guys are absolutely ruthless even to other Koreans, but when it comes to foreigners it is at another level. A Korean does not expect some other Korean to randomly cockblock him, but a foreigner should. In relation to dating Korean girls (or even just meeting) in a situation where the Korean girls are firmly ensconced in a Korean circle (often reinforced by a "church" which is more like a dating club) then you must proceed in complete secrecy. If you don't the Korean girl will be exposed to slut shaming by their Korean circle (I had a Korean girlfriend that cried when that happened to her) and you will be faced with sudden, inexplicable cancellations when it was the Korean girl that actually invited you out. The only good thing I can say about this is that it isn't as bad as it was years past.

 

One thing that should be understood is that a Korean girl that is *known* to have had sex with a foreign man is literally ruined in the eyes of *most* Korean men. Therefore the guys that are cockblocking you probably think that they are doing the Korean girl a favor by slut shaming her. Korean guys are not usually very subtle either so they might even slut shame her right in front of you (in Korean, of course).

 

In addition to slut shaming they may actually be assassinating your character. For example, they may say you had a girlfriend and dumped her when she got pregnant, but not to ask you about it because you told them in confidence, and so on.

 

Next time proceed in secrecy. 

[Lu]

That's messed up in so many ways. From that I'd conclude that a lot of Korean guys think they're so worthless that the only way a woman would pick them if they make all other guys look even worse. Not sure if I feel sorrier for the men or for the women in such an environment.

[Demonic_Duck]

Wow, that's fucked up. Remind me never to complain about Chinese dating culture again.

[Triling]

lol what an interesting topic.

 

I would say it's just typical in-group mentality found among male primates, including non-human primates.

 

You would probably do the same in the reverse situation.

[Simon_CH]

Hah that reminds me of my visit to Nara, Japan. I happened to meet a Korean girl by chance in the park there, went to have lunch with her, had a good time, though there wasn't much chemistry on either side I think.

 

When we walked to the train station (to different destinations) a middle-aged Korean man approached us, initially all friendly, but after confirming that she was indeed Korean quickly became really aggressive, telling us in English that Korean women shouldn't date foreigners, that those who do are all sluts, and so on... My first instinct was to react to his rudeness, but she became really defensive, essentially agreeing to everything he said. I walked away, angry, and we said goodbye in a rather rushed, cold way.

 

After reading a lot of comments on Koreabang and similar websites I came to the conclusion that slut-shaming was a disturbing part of Korean culture, especially when it involves foreigners.

[MPhillips]

I wonder if it's entirely the fault of Korean culture or might have something to do with the prolonged US military presence there?

[Yadang]

 

You would probably do the same in the reverse situation.

 

I most certainly would not.

[ZhangKaiRong]

You would probably do the same in the reverse situation.

 

No, not at all. I don't have any hard feelings against guys from other countries/cultures dating girls from my country. Take them all, I don't care, since the girls can decide themselves whether or not would they like to date with those guys. I don't even care if they date Asians, I won't spread any rude stereotypes about them. In reverse situation, it is not like this. I heard what most Asian guys told girls from their own countries about white males, and it was pretty much nonsense and really offensive.

[Lu]

You would probably do the same in the reverse situation.

I have fortunately never seen men from my country act like that. I've dated foreigners from various countries and nobody ever gave me shit for that. In my view it takes a combination of strong feelings of inferiority and sexism to make a man act like that.

[Triling]

Well it can be a bad deal for locals of any country to date foreigners.

 

It's not specific to Korea or any other country.

NPR did a coverage on UN and Red Cross workers impregnating locals while they were deployed for rescue missions.

The men leave and the women are left to take care of the children by themselves.

The same is true for Korean Americans who stay in Korea and date local Korean women; they are going to leave pretty soon.

 

I think it's unfair to generalize about Koreans as a whole based on some anecdotal experience.