Self study, where to go next?

[traunk]

Today I am finishing the Integrated Chinese Textbook Series with my iTalki teacher. I plan to review what we have learned in the last book and a half, over the next couple of days. After that I need a plan. 

 

I already own the PAVC books, and would like to make use of them, but I have some questions... 

• Should I even use the PAVC series?
• If I do use it, where in the PAVC series would be the best starting place?
• Do you have any sort of simple comparison for these 2 series? For example IC level 2 book 1 chapter 5 is roughly equivalent to PAVC book 2 chapter 5.
• I plan to get a PAVC anki deck, what else would be good supplemental material to go along with this study plan?
• What other learning suggestions do you have for someone of my level?

Below are some thoughts I have had on this.

 

One thing I have been searching for but I have been unable to find is a comparison of PAVC to IC. Last summer I did an intensive Chinese course in Taipei. At that point I was halfway through the third Integrated Chinese book. They figured that put me at chapter 6 of the second book of PAVC. This worked out ok, about half the grammar was new to me and half wasn't. Now that I am done with the IC books. I have been thumbing through my copies of the PAVC books. In the third book, I see some random words and grammar points that are new to me, but just one or two here or there, not enough to make me want to work that whole chapter. Also, the topics mostly match up with the IC series, putting the next chapter as chapter 2 of book 4. This makes me think I should probably start at the beginning of PAVC book 4.

 

Thanks in advance your your advice and help!

[querido]

Do you have Chinese speaking friends with real common interests? If not, that's what I recommend. That way you begin to "get a life" in Chinese.

[James3]

You're way ahead of me, but based on my very favorable experience with language exchange partners, I might recommend you explore that idea. I've made some really good friends with what started out to be just language exchange partners. Now I have a real desire to try to communicate with them in Mandarin. It helps me stay motivated sometimes. That might help you do like querido suggests above.

[Kelby]

Personally I'd like to know a little bit about your situation and goals before recommending a method of study. Perhaps I missed that in another thread, but knowing whether you're a classroom or independent learner, how long you've been studying, what you've studied, and where you want your Chinese to go would be helpful for providing feedback here.

 

I think I agree though with the above two that it sounds like it'd be helpful to start using the Chinese you've studied in a real-life context. This may just be my experience, but none of my textbook Chinese really felt like it clicked until I met the lovely woman I'm now married to. A Chinese social life does wonders for your laguage skills.

 

Sounds like you want to keep going with formal study though. Sorry, I'm not familiar with either textbook, but I'd advise that if you want to go through what's already on your shelf, then just dive in. Honestly it sounds like you already know how you want to continue studying. Already knowing half the information for one of the books sounds like a great situation to me. It'll be fast and motivating to go through to say the least, so you shouln't be wasting much time if that's what you go with. When I prepared for the HSK 4 last winter I already knew half the recommended vocabulary and grammar from the start and ended up acing the exam (minus 3 points), so I think a little review in your learning can hardly be a bad thing.

 

However, as you're at a juncture in your learning I'd ask yourself what you feel you need to work on. For example, if your tones feel bad, listening is a problem, or you lack confidence and fluency in conversation perhaps taking a haiatus from textbooks and focusing on fixing what ails your Chinese might be a good idea. Going forward are you continuing with a tutor or are you going solo? A tutor or honest friend might be able to help you out what you need to work on.

[roddy]

Welcome to a new member!

 

Sounds like Book 4 is the place to start (although also sounds like you figured that out yourself). It might also be worth while having a very quick run through of the content in the earlier books though - are there end of chapter tests or something? The consolidation of what you know won't do you any harm. 

 

As for other study approaches - it does sound like you're at a level where you can start branching out from the textbooks. What kind of stuff might interest you? You can find recommendation for movies, books, comic books, video games, audio books, etc, etc, on here. It's kind of a question of what you want to do - no point forcing yourself to do something that would be dull in English...

[OneEye]

I find that there's a big difference between "there isn't much I haven't studied" and "I really know this stuff well." When I first moved to Taiwan, I figured I'd get placed somewhere near the middle of PAVC 3 because I "knew" pretty much all the material in the textbook up to that point. They actually placed me in PAVC 2 chapter 4 because I didn't really "know" it like I thought I did. I felt like the class was too easy at first, but then I realized that recognizing the vocabulary on the page and being able to use it in conversation are two very different things. I'd recommend going through book 3 (IMO it's actually one of the better ones in the PAVC series, anyway) first and making sure that you really know the content. If you're already familiar with the content, it won't take too long, and you'll be in a much better position to start book 4.

[imron]

Good advice from OneEye. Don't be in such a rush to move on to more 'advanced' stuff. Make sure you've got a really solid foundation of the stuff you do know first.

[traunk]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

 

Do you have Chinese speaking friends with real common interests? If not, that's what I recommend. That way you begin to "get a life" in Chinese.

 

I do have some. I agree with you that this would be a good thing to pursue. Right now, I am having a terrible time talking to them in Chinese. They knew me before I could speak much Chinese, and usually speak to me in English. If I do get them speaking in Chinese with me, anytime there's a communication hiccup they fall back to English. I want to speak to them in Chinese. They are part of why I am learning the language. Should I be more pushy, or direct? What to do next if they still won't? Any advice you have here would be helpful. 

 

 

 

Personally I'd like to know a little bit about your situation and goals before recommending a method of study. Perhaps I missed that in another thread, but knowing whether you're a classroom or independent learner, how long you've been studying, what you've studied, and where you want your Chinese to go would be helpful for providing feedback here.

 

My learning type: For the most part I think I am a independent learner who needs an accountability system. My current routine goes like this. Before I meet with my teacher on skype I have already studied the chapter, memorized the vocabulary, and went over the dialogue at least once. When we meet my teacher is there to correct me when I make mistakes, explain things the book left out, quiz me on my understanding of the material, and have a conversation using the new grammar and vocabulary. I spend at least 15 minutes everyday reviewing my anki deck, and I try to spend about an hour doing something Chinese language related like having a conversation, reviewing my textbook, reading weibo messages, or watching a Chinese youtube video. Textbooks and courses are what I know. I am not sure how to create my own level appropriate learning material other than word lists. I am not opposed to leaving the textbooks, but I am not sure how to.

 

How long I have been studying: Between ages 19 and 28 I started and stopped things like Pimsleur CD 1, Rosetta Stone level 1, and various beginner books many times. At 28 I did the Chinesepod classes thing for 3 months, then I took Chinese at our local university for 3 semesters. I took a 4 week intensive course in Taipei last summer, and I passed the HSK 3 last fall. For the last 6 months I have been independent learning. I have been studying off and on for 11 years, but I have only been studying in earnest for the last 2+ years.

 

What I have studied: I'm not sure how to best answer this. I guess most of the general topics. I did Rosetta stone through level 3. My Chinesepod classes had some business, and IT topics covered, and my university class covered plenty about university life, some about going abroad, relationships, gender equality, and recycling. In my personal life my friends, and wife's family has taught me about games, food, and some family stuff.

Where I want my Chinese to go: I want to become more conversationally proficient. I want to be able to read fiction, and watch movies without asking so many questions. I also want to start getting a larger vocabulary related to my work. I'm a Programmer. 

 

 

The language partner idea sounds great. Even if  my current friends won't talk with me in Chinese, there's no reason I can't make some new ones who will.

 

Several of you mentioned a little review isn't a bad thing. I think you are right. Yesterday, when I thought about starting in book 3 it felt like a step back. But slowing down may be just what I need. I don't want to burn out. I do want a better foundation.

 

Again, thank you everyone for taking the time to give me your thoughts.

[Lu]

They knew me before I could speak much Chinese, and usually speak to me in English. If I do get them speaking in Chinese with me, anytime there's a communication hiccup they fall back to English. I want to speak to them in Chinese. They are part of why I am learning the language. Should I be more pushy, or direct? What to do next if they still won't? Any advice you have here would be helpful.

Explain explicitly to them that you're learning Chinese & why, and ask them if they can help you and speak Chinese with you, or speak Chinese with you for certain periods of time. (Assuming their English is better than your Chinese, it can be a bit much to ask to do the entire friendship in Chinese from now on, too much communication will be lost.) If they're willing to do that, great. If they're willing to do that but fall back to English, just stubbornly continue to speak Chinese and perhaps ask them how to say what they just said in Chinese. If they're not willing, or it doesn't work, find some new additional Chinese friends, preferably friends that don't speak English well or aren't interested in speaking it with you, and speak only Chinese with them from the start. And/or get a language partner.

[querido]

I only have time for this brief answer. No, I wouldn't make anyone feel like I expect them to give me a language lesson unless I'm *paying* them. I would begin by conducting *my half* of the conversation in Chinese as well as I can. I usually only say things I already know I can say right, conscious that being incomprehensible would be an imposition; each occurence is a distraction from that "genuine common interest" of which I spoke, requiring that they stop and turn their attention to language issues. Just common sense, not wanting to be a pest.

 

With regard to written communication, with some of my friends I write only in Chinese (but I try to be sure that what I've written is decipherable). Sometimes they reply in Chinese, sometimes not. I've written thousands of texts and emails now, and they seem to understand what I'm saying.

[Kelby]

 

Where I want my Chinese to go: I want to become more conversationally proficient. I want to be able to read fiction, and watch movies without asking so many questions. I also want to start getting a larger vocabulary related to my work. I'm a Programmer.

 

I find that last part interesting. Have you considered picking up some programming materials in Chinese (I'm sure you can find something on baidu for 电脑系统/软件设计). I'm sure you could also get something out of writing down some work related vocabulary and then trying to search out the Chinese equivalents to these things with a combination of Pleco and Baidu baike for fact checking. This stuff certainly wouldn't be on your "textbook level," but considering it's stuff you use every day in your job it would certainly fit into your "personal frequency" vocabulary.

[simc]

There is a variety of computer books that have been translated from English available at online stores like Dangdang and Amazon.cn. Might be a while before you can easily read them though. I've brute forced my way through about half of one and they certainly get easier as time goes on.

[Adam_CLO]

If you're planning to enroll again in any of the local language centers in Taiwan, then going through the PAVC books is a good idea, as that's the series that all the centers have to follow. For anyone interested, I have a review website for PAVC that I run for one of the schools here in Taiwan. There are tons of exercises there that help you review the vocabulary and grammar patterns taught in each book and lesson.

 

 

If you're not planning to enroll in a language center in the future though, then I wouldn't limit myself to just those books (some of the material in it is a bit dated). See what other materials your teacher recommends, so you're getting a broader perspective.

[traunk]

Thank you everyone who gave advice and asked me questions. I wanted to let every know what I decided and how it is turning out. 

 

I decided to start with PAVC 3 with my italki teacher. We are already up to chapter 6. While I know 80%-90% of the vocabulary, there is still some new bits that are interesting and useful(eg 弄, 烂). What was most surprising to me was the grammar. Every chapter has managed to deepen my understanding on some grammar point, or introduced me to a new grammar point. 

 

Also, good news about my Chinese speaking friends. Several will now talk with me mostly in Chinese. I still have several that won't but that's ok.

 

I also took peoples advice to get some conversation partners and do 50/50 exchange. I have added several people on Skype and Wechat over the last 2 weeks. I have even started doing 50/50 conversations using text chat, but I have not yet done spoken. I hope to take that plunge any day now. 

 

I have also acquired several programming books, but I have not started going through them.

 

Again thanks for the advice!

[Kelby]

That's so awesome to hear that things are going well for you. I actually just had dinner with a friend who I knew in my 'pre-Chinese period' in Shanghai and was surprised by how relieved he was that we could finally talk in Chinese. Glad to hear your friends came around

You'll have to let us know how the study went when you're done. A writeup on a textbook is useful for everyone. I'm particularly interested to know how learning programming in Chinese goes once you get into it as well ;)