Manuel Posted December 31, 2014 at 02:00 AM Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 at 02:00 AM My 800-yuan, 5-year old Giant bike had served me well for the past five years but was stolen last month, so I am looking to buy a means of personal transportation. I have been looking at folding bicycles and e-bikes. I have never owned an e-bike and I was surprised to see that a very decent looking e-bike (hydraulic disc brakes, dual shocks front and rear, 1000W motor and seemingly good quality materials) is actually about 1000 yuan cheaper than the cheapest folding bike with Avid BB5 cable disk brakes. A colleague actually owns this e-bike and it does look well put together. Below I've listed the pros and cons I could think of. I don't think I need an e-bike but I do need some means of personal transportation because it saves me time, and seeing that e-bikes are actually cheaper and given some of their benefits, it is very tempting. Folding bike: Mechanically simple = easy to maintain by yourself Spare parts readily available Small and light, so they can be stored indoors, and parking is never a problem Because you keep it indoors, you are more likely to keep the bike clean, which in turn extends its life Can be carried on the bus/train/metro, or in the boot. You can even bring it with you when you travel No vehicle registration required No running costs (electricity) Small environmental footprint (other than during manufacturing and disposal)* A way to exercise Most decent folding bikes are made of weather-resistant materials Can be ridden for many years if taken care of, with hardly any maintenance Teoretically safer because it's slower, and because you generally have better control over a machine powered by your own muscles It's always ready to go, no need to charge batteries But... Slower You get sweaty in summer Can only carry one person Not convenient for carrying objects Re-sale price much lower than brand-new price even if the bicycle is in mint condition E-bike: Faster Takes no effort to ride (no sweaty shirts in summer and long-range trips possible) Cheaper than a folding bicycle Can carry two people Can carry heavy objects between legs e.g. shopping or kuaidi deliveries Easy to re-sell with minimal loss (provided it's still in good shape) But... Even though it is mechanically simple, the electrical and electronic parts may be difficult to repair without previous experience. Spare parts may be harder to come by. Storage and parking can be a problem More difficult to keep clean Can only be transported on a large vehicle (e.g. a van) Vehicle registration required Running costs (vehicle registration, electricity, battery replacements) Greater environmental footprint (electricity generation, more plastics, more materials in general, more energy required during manufacture) You get no exercise from riding an e-bike Difficult to ascertain the quality of the materials as most e-bike manufacturers are relatively new, but from what I've seen many e-bikes start to rust relatively soon, meaning that a lot of them don't use stainless steel, which limits the life of the vehicle. A crash at high speed can be more damaging No charge = no ride Regarding the environmental footprint, Wikipedia says that e-bikes were found to be of about equal impact to the environment as a conventional bicycle, but I don't see how that can be true. The link to the source of that claim is broken so I was unable to check it, but in the past five years many of my colleagues have had to replace the battery of their e-bikes several times while the only things I've replaced on my bicycle are one inner tube and the front brake pads. Also, the amount of plastics used on an e-bike is considerably greater, whereas a bike made of steel would quickly rust away. So I am debating between the two. Any e-bike and bicycle owners willing to chime in? Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoose Posted December 31, 2014 at 03:44 AM Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 at 03:44 AM As far as I know, a bike without pedals is considered a motor vehicle which you need a license to "drive" legally. That is why many e-bikes also have a set of pedals. Many people ride e-bikes without licenses, but if caught by the police, your bike may be confiscated, and as a foreigner, who knows what else they'll do. In fact, I've seen on more than one occasion someone smashing up their e-bike by the side of the road after being stopped by the police. They would rather destroy their bike than letting the police get a "free" bike. (There are also videos of this on youku.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liuzhou Posted December 31, 2014 at 06:09 AM Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 at 06:09 AM As far as I know, a bike without pedals is considered a motor vehicle which you need a license to "drive" legally. That is why many e-bikes also have a set of pedals. E-bikes here have no pedals and are classified as bicycles and no licence is required. The horrible things have to be registered though. But...... Can only carry one person Bicycles can, and often do do, carry more than one person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted December 31, 2014 at 06:17 AM Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 at 06:17 AM I am thinking about one of those small folding bikes, because it would be fun to be able to bring it when I travel and make forays into the suburbs etc. The more I think about it the more I see the folding bike and the e-bike as both being useful in different ways. But I am leaning towards the folding bike because of the freedom factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoose Posted December 31, 2014 at 06:26 AM Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 at 06:26 AM Maybe it was registration then. I don't really know as I don't have either. But anyway, there is some restriction on electric bikes without pedals. And I'm sure, even in Liuzhou, some electric bikes do have pedals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liuzhou Posted December 31, 2014 at 07:59 AM Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 at 07:59 AM And I'm sure, even in Liuzhou, some electric bikes do have pedals. Very, very few. I can't remember the last time I saw one. Yet in Nanning, just down the road, most do. It seems to vary from city to city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted December 31, 2014 at 08:01 AM Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 at 08:01 AM I've just had a closer look at my mate's e-bike and I noticed a lot of bits already going rusty, even though it's only 2 months old... looks like that's where corners were cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Posted December 31, 2014 at 08:40 AM Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 at 08:40 AM Several of the pro's/cons you mention are (at least to some extent) model dependent, so hard to comment on in a meaningful way. At least a few of them I would consider doubtful for the Dutch market, I don't know the Chinese market so it may be different over there. For safety considerations, there goes much more into safety then speed alone. How the bike handles, how stable it is or how visible it is for example. Also higher speed is not only a safety disadvantage. Speed is by definition not dangerous, it's speed differences that are risky. So, higher speed is dangerous when hitting the ground/wall, but when traveling between motor vehicles higher speed can be safer. Speed can also help you get out of harms way. Regarding the environmental footprint, Wikipedia says that e-bikes were found to be of about equal impact to the environment as a conventional bicycle, but I don't see how that can be true. The problem with environmental footprint is that it can be calculated in many ways, with different assumptions and consequently very different outcomes. In this case I would expect that they assume the e-bike makes more distance. E.g 80% of the trips up to 30 minutes will be done by (e-)bike. So pollution is averaged out and the per km pollution may end up the same. Perhaps they even credit for the 'saved' pollution for not taking a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChTTay Posted December 31, 2014 at 08:59 AM Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 at 08:59 AM I would say, you really need to decide what your priorities are. The list of pros and cons doesn't seem to be helping. You used a GIANT bike for 5 years. Was there something you wished you could do during this 5 years that an electric bike would enable you to do? Do you want or need to go faster? Do you need to move heavy boxes around? If your priorities include 'the environment', staying fit, a simple way to get from a to b, then maybe a bicycle is the way forward. On the other hand, if you really want to minimise all the cons you listed above... buy both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
889 Posted December 31, 2014 at 09:46 AM Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 at 09:46 AM As a pedestrian, I vote -- and vote very strongly -- for the old-fashioned, traditional bicycle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelina Posted December 31, 2014 at 12:22 PM Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 at 12:22 PM As a pedestrian, I vote for walking. I am not sure if this is the right thing for you, but I walk a lot and I am happy. Good for the environment, good for your health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidfromsweden Posted January 14, 2015 at 06:09 PM Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 06:09 PM How much is an e-bike in China? I guess it depends on the model and so on but in general? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted January 15, 2015 at 01:48 PM Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 01:48 PM Thanks guys for your opinions, I eventually opted for the folding bike and, as a bicycle enthusiast, I am very happy with my decision. I've already taken it to the city centre on the metro and it has been great fun to ride around, and then folding it again to go into places where bikes would otherwise not be allowed. The bike I got is a Dahon S18, and it's an absolute speedster, as fast as many e-bikes. No need to charge it and if it rains I can hail a cab and pop it in the boot. An e-bike has some advantages but in my case a folding bike ticked more boxes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidfromsweden Posted January 15, 2015 at 03:22 PM Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 03:22 PM Thanks for being such a selfish prick and telling us all about your new investment without answering my question which i assume you have the answer to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted January 15, 2015 at 03:24 PM Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 03:24 PM LOL sorry, well yes it depends, you can get an OK e-bike for 2,500 yuan, and a bad-ass looking one for 4,000-5,000 yuan, and a quality one for 10,000 yuan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CH Posted January 15, 2015 at 03:25 PM Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 03:25 PM I have had my fair share of experience with e-bikes in the last 2 years in Beijing, so here's my 2 cents: E-bikes give you far greater flexibility and range in exploring a city, or just meeting a friend some 10k away than a conventional bike. The speed difference may not be huge, but I think you'll find that you will travel much more when you have an e-bike, or spontaneously decide to go to this or that place. In many traffic-clogged cities of China a faster e-bike is the single fastest mode of transport for small to medium distances. But, as you mentioned even the best and most expensive e-bikes from supposedly reputable brands (Junyue for example) have big quality issues. Really cheap materials are used, your bike will start to look really old after a year or so, and the re-sale value drops dramatically because repairs are inevitable. But despite this lack of quality they are rather fast, and that's where the danger lies. Plus the risk of having your e-bike stolen is just ridiculous, at least in Beijing, even with a massive lock attached to some railing. I couldn't imagine not having an e-bike in Beijing anymore, it gives me great freedom in going wherever, whenever. But with the constant threat of having it stolen, the very frequent repairs, the heavy battery, and - considering the quality - not very cheap price it's not something I would recommmend to everyone, especially if you're not a very safe and experienced rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted January 15, 2015 at 03:59 PM Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 03:59 PM They look fantastic when you purchase them though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelina Posted January 15, 2015 at 04:03 PM Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 04:03 PM You ignored my suggestion Cost : 0 RMB Renewable energy ：100% renewable + you will save money since you won't need to join a gym Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted January 15, 2015 at 05:02 PM Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 05:02 PM 100% renewable... well if we get into the details of how the food we ingest is produced, it's probably not 100% renewable but it's certainly cleaner than wheels. However, wheels save time, which is what I was after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidfromsweden Posted January 15, 2015 at 07:27 PM Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 07:27 PM Thank you my dear sir for your respons on my question! I will consider the option to buy an e-bike once I'm settled in China again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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