Is China safe for foreigners?

[Frederik451]

I am sorry for the long post! But I have wanted to write down my experience for a long time, also just for myself, since it is something i still think about very often. 

 

As i am about to move to Shanghai to study for one year, I have been asked quite a few times by people close to me, whether or not i think it’s safe to be a foreigner in China. I already feel quite confident living in China as i did one year of studying in Beijing from 2012 to 2013. We went out a lot that year and i always felt completely safe. But one night changed it all for me. One night we got beat up really bad.

 

So here it goes:

The last weekend before we headed home to Denmark we were out partying one last time in Sanlitun. At some point we wanted to go to Kokomo which is a rooftop bar/club thing located on the 4^th floor of a building in the center of Sanlitun. All the floors in the building have bars and clubs and there is one stairway going through all levels. It’s often crowded on these stairs as people always move between bars. Just before we reached the 4^th floor where Kokomo is, we noticed some noise coming from a few meters above us. Suddenly a white girl came out screaming and crying while several bartenders were pushing her, and hitting her in the head. One of the bartenders grabbed her hair and threw her down the stairs so she flipped backwards and rolled until she hit the ground. After this they kept going at her. At this point we are talking something like 5 bartenders against this girl. It was very hard to look at.

 

People were just standing there watching the whole thing go down. So two friends and me quickly decided to go over there and try to get the bartenders away from her. We tried to break it up and get her on her feet. I think we said something like “Sorry, Sorry. We will take her home”. At this point hell broke loose. I don’t know if the guys thought we were with the girl or if they were just provoked because we interfered. But somehow they managed to push us all (me, two friends, the girl and one of her female friends) into one of the bars on that level. As i remember it, the bar was quickly emptied, the music stopped, and the light was turned on. I remember we were standing in the corner kind of holding each other, trying to apologize to the bartenders. In 30 seconds the 5 bartenders became 20 bartenders. I knew two of them from one of the other bars. Up until that night I actually thought we were friends.

 

We were trapped in the corner trying to hold some kind of formation. The more of them that came, the more aggressive they got. I remember (I’m quite tall so i could see everything that was going on) that one bartender came running into the room and directly towards us. He then tried to jump over the rest of the guys while throwing a punch. But there were too many guys in front of him waiting in line to get a piece of what was about to happen.

 

At this point i knew they were going to beat us. It was just a matter of time before one of them would hit first. People were standing in the door looking in to see what was happening and i remember i was yelling like crazy that they should call the police. (This is 200 meters from the police station in Sanlitun). Suddenly one guy started hitting and kicking and within seconds the rest of the group followed up. While hitting and kicking they pushed us all the way out of the bar and down to the street in Sanlitun. When we arrived my t-shirt had been ripped off, and my shorts were falling down under my knees. I had to step out of them in order to keep my balance. All i was thinking was DON’T fall down. There was a whole circle of people, foreigners and Chinese, standing around watching the whole thing. We kept calling for help and for the police, both in English and in Chinese. Some people were yelling at the bartenders trying to make them stop, but nobody dared to interfere. They started pushing us towards the police station (while they were still kicking and hitting). I think more and more people were joining them from the street. They were just everywhere around us. My friend and I had lost sight of our third friend. We were walking backwards with our arms around our heads as protection.

 

Half way towards the police station i looked to my right and 1,5 meters from me was a policeman just standing there watching. I called him for help but he just took his hands up waving like “no no i don’t want any part in this”. Somehow i was much more afraid of these bartenders than i would be afraid of an angry policeman, so I reached out and grabbed him and pulled him in front of my friend and me. We somehow managed to use him as a shield while walking the last 50-100 meters to the police station. (They were still able to hit us but because they had to find a way around the policeman they didn’t do much damage at this point. When we arrived at the police station (this might have been only 2-3 minutes since the whole thing started), they kind of just pushed us in there, and then walked away.

 

I was standing in the front hall in only my underwear, and with blood on my body. I was looking at myself for where it might come from but then i saw that my friend was bleeding from the back of his head. It was his blood. A few minutes after a group of a few big Nigerian guys came with our third friend, who looked even worse than us. It turned out that when we got separated he fell to the ground and they just beat him like crazy. A random guy from Pakistan tried to put his body over him to protect him but he ended up getting beat up as well. At some point these Nigerian guys managed to get my friend and the random guy up and then walk/carry them to the police station. Maybe they knew some of the bartenders or something, i don’t know. A few minutes after that, two other random western guys came into the police station looking really bad. It turns out they had tried to help as well but they too got beat up.

 

During the next half an hour something, we were all sitting in the front hall (Me, my two friends, the Pakistan guy, and the two other guys). The girl who we tried to help in the beginning had managed to get away somehow. (We found out later that she had been stealing alcohol from the bar or something, ignoring several warnings from the bartenders)

 

The police wanted our names and passport numbers so they could write a report. My friend was still bleeding from his head and my other friend looked really bad too. Somehow i was the only one who was not hurt very bad. Half naked with a few bruises on my body, but fine.

 

Then out of nowhere they just told us to go home. We demanded that they called an ambulance for us, which after some time, they agreed to. My friend ended up getting 6 stiches in the back of his head, and my other friend went through some kind of examination to find out if something had happened to his head.  We never saw the Pakistan guy or the two other western guys again. They didn’t join us in the ambulance.

 

This night really changed my attitude towards China. I had been feeling so awesome and on top of the world for the whole year and then on our last weekend this happened. It made me think a lot. After all we really are just guests in another country. There are many foreigners in China just living inside of their 外国人 bobble, partying every week, drinking, afraid of nothing. Including myself during that year. I think many people feel safer when they travel in other countries than their own. Maybe because you don’t speak the language you don’t really sense things around you. Maybe you don’t see it when others are feeling provoked by you. At least i was like this. Until that night.

 

Somehow i understand why the bartenders got so angry. Not that i would beat up people myself, but i just think that working as a bartender (especially in Sanlitun) you see drunk foreigners everyday, entering your bar acting like they own the place. I think many of the bartenders and bar owners are really annoyed by this. My friends and I have pissed off some people during that year. I see this now. And i am not proud of it.

 

I think that night was not just about what the bartenders felt like the girl did, but what they feel like happens to them all the time. So i can see why some of them might build up some anger. They are just trying to run a business after all.

 

I wouldn’t say i regret trying to help the girl, but this whole thing really taught me a lesson. Just because you’re a foreigner doesn’t mean that nothing can happen to you. I actually thought that. So stupid!

 

I’m not at all saying that everybody is acting stupid when they go out in China. I know most people are not! But in general as a guest in a foreign country you should make sure you show the proper respect to people. Don’t piss people off. (This goes for everywhere in world).

 

Most people of course know this already, but for me that night helped me realize it! And I’m actually grateful for that. It was a piece of reality that slapped me in my face.

 

"So is China safe for foreigners?", people ask me. Yes i think it is! Of course something bad can happen to you if you are unlucky. But if you are nice to people, most of them will be nice to you. I am looking so much forward to my next trip to China! So i always tell my family and friends not to worry about me. J

 

This wasn't really meant to start a huge discussion or anything, just me writing down one of my experiences. And to the few guys who managed to read the whole thing, thank you for your time :-)

 

[querido]

I avoid drunk people even in my own country. In fact, even in my own family.

[889]

That's a disturbing story, for sure, and I'm not saying your courage was wrong. Yet I think a lot of folks here could see exactly what was going to happen to you the minute you intervened, down to the sudden appearance of a fleet of bartenders and the blindness afflicting the police.

But taking it as a lesson, it illustrates an absolute rule of behaviour in China, one never to be broken:

Do not involve yourself in others' disputes, no matter if they're going at someone with iron bars. Ever.

[Frederik451]

 

 

Do not involve yourself in others' disputes, no matter if they're going at someone with iron bars. Ever. 

I will definitely remember this as i move forward. It is not easy, to look at a girl getting beat up, even though she might have done something wrong. :/ However, it wasn't worth it

Edited August 14, 2015 at 08:33 PM by Frederik451

[langxia]

I guess you didn´t hear about the guy who´s (Chinese) wife got stabbed to death, and he had undergo surgery cause some nut-job thought he was an American? Happened a day or two ago in Sanlitun.

[Frederik451]

i heard about that. Very sad story!

[roddy]

China's safe for foreigners. Sanlitun less so. This came up a few summers ago, don't have much to add to what I wrote there. Glad you all escaped relatively unscathed.

[Frederik451]

Thank you for the link Roddy. Very Interesting. I did not know that sanlitun was a place where these things tend to happen.

[abcdefg]

The bar zone in Kunming also has such events. 昆都。I stay well away from there after dark.

[Johnny20270]

Frederik, 

 

sounds like a bad story.  Sanlitun is a bit of a dump anyway in my view, I hate going there at night. Looks like you got caught up in a bad situation. Two other aspects to this 

1) Its noticeable how many idiot foreigners you get in Sanlitiun going around thinking every Asian girl wants them. Its embarrassing to watch and unlike many western girls who are much more direct in telling a guy no, Chinese girls area lot politer in their refusal, some western guys don't take no for an answer. Asian get get annoyed and take it out on others

 

2) Some Chinese guys are cowards, can never fight one on one, need a dozen of their friends before anything kicks off. Also some don't seem to have any issues beating up a woman. In my country its the worst of the worse to hit a girl. The crowd would get involved if that happened and the guy would find himself on the end a beating. But in China, I have seen this more than a few times, on the subway, night time, a guy dragging a girl by the hair on the street or slamming her head into something.Cowardly!

 

But in respect to your opening title: I don't think China is dangerous at all compared to any other European capital, far less that Moscow, 

 

 

 

Do not involve yourself in others' disputes, no matter if they're going at someone with iron bars. Ever. 

 

Sorry 889 I disagree with you there, this is one of the problems with the world now, people won't get involved. It can just mean a phone call or something. Look at Sanlitun a few days ago, a woman was killed and only a French guy intervenes. What Fredrick did was right and well done to him for having the courage to help her out. You should not discourage him for his actions. You should be proud of yourself Fredrick. 

 

 

Any time I see a woman get beat up I'm going to get involved. Actually its hard to know where the line is, In Guomao last week a woman was walloping the ...  out of a kid with a stick. He was balling his eyes out, luckily some other woman stopped it 

[roddy]

I've also got to say - would have LOVED to see the look on that policeman's face as he suddenly became an unwilling human shield. Bet they didn't cover that at cop school.

I do suspect people tend to have a somewhat elevated view of violence in their home countries. "They don't fight fair", "we don't hit women..." etc. There are differences and the statistics for a genuine comparison probably don't exist, but the UK at least does not lack for random beatings and violence against women.

[Frederik451]

 

 

I don't think China is dangerous at all compared to any other European capital

i completely agree with that

 

Good points Johnny. You are right It is really embarrassing to watch those foreign idiots thinking that they are so much above the Chinese people and that every Chinese girl wants them.

 

 

 

In my country its the worst of the worse to hit a girl. The crowd would get involved if that happened and the guy would find himself on the end a beating.

I believe that would be the case in Denmark too. But as Roddy says, it's hard to say exactly. It's just a feeling i have. I know one thing for sure. If it was happening downtown, the police would show up quickly.

 

As i said i don't regret trying to help, but i question whether or not it was for any good. I think many of those bartenders were happy that we gave them an excuse to attack us. it ended up being 5 against 1 anyway. just times 4. 

 

 

 

Any time I see a woman get beat up I'm going to get involved

That's the thing. I keep asking myself if i would do it again if i saw something like this somewhere else. Maybe i would try to help again. I hope i will never find out.

 

 

Parents beating their kids is 2nd on my list of things i just can't stand looking at. 

[洋人丹]

@ roddy 

 

I agree. In the US many people would say that only the lowest of the low commit violence against women.

 

But according to statistics, at least 1 in 4 women in the US will be victims of domestic violence by an intimate partner. The idea that "we don't hit women, but those (many times said to be non-white people) do!" Kind of thing reeks of colonialist/racist discourse, and I usually hear it from people with very strong nationalistic tendencies.

 

The other idea that "In China if people see violence happening they won't do anything, but in our society they will!" In the US at least, there is a lot of research that shows a lot less people will do something than people would like to think. People's views of their own culture are just a warped as their views of others. 

 

Regardless, the original post is a horrible story. I never liked bars and clubs...another reason for me to not ever go.

 

EDIT: wanted to clarify something

[Frederik451]

 

 

would have LOVED to see the look on that policeman's face as he suddenly became an unwilling human shield. Bet they didn't cover that at cop school.

 

unfortunately i kind of only saw him from behind after i grabbed him. ;)

 

It all went down so quick. But yeah he definitely thought he was gonna be able to sit that one out. 

[roddy]

To be fair his training for that kind of situation was probably "Don't get involved, it ain't worth it."

"i question whether or not it was for any good"

I think it's incredibly difficult to go into a situation like that and make things better. Nine times of ten the victim and the aggressor are going home together.

[Frederik451]

 

 

But according to statistics, at least 1 in 4 women in the US will be victims of domestic violence by an intimate partner.

Domestic violence is very sad and it unfortunately happens everywhere. Also in Europa and USA. I agree with you. But i feel like that's another discussion.

 

It's not the same thing as bartenders in a bar forming a group together, brutally beating up a girl customer in front of everybody. (or a man for that sake) I don't think that happens everywhere. If you get thrown out of a bar in Denmark it's usually the bouncers pushing you out of the door. IF it ends up with some kind of a fight, people will blame the bouncers for not doing their job correctly. So most bouncers are very aware about what they say and do when on duty. People will try to use anything they do against them.

 

@roddy 

Yes. I'm sure the policeman was just following the normal customs when seeing a group fight like that ;) He was alone, 25 people going at it, not much he could do.

[Lu]

Look at Sanlitun a few days ago, a woman was killed and only a French guy intervenes.

Wasn't the French guy her husband? Or am I misinformed? Because in that case, it makes total sense that he would come to her aid. And if there's a nut with a sword walking about, I'd think twice about interfering as well. I would probably call the police and/or an ambulance, but I'd also make sure I was well out of the way.

 

I agree with others, China is a very safe place in general. But you're not untouchable because you're a foreigner, and especially in Sanlitun people have run out of patience with foreigners quite a while ago.

[889]

Anyone given by nature to Good Samaritan interventions should be aware that local gangsters run protection rackets in commercial areas throughout China. Whenever you see a person being openly attacked by a group of young men, the men are almost certainly local gangsters engaging in some sort of enforcement action; keep your distance and move on.

If a street vendor doesn't pay her protection money when due, a toughie will first kick her stall and goods around, and if that doesn't work other toughs will come running out from everywhere and she will be roughed up. If a shopowner catches a shoplifter, he'll call in the local gang who'll hustle the frightened thief off for a beating. If a gang member misbehaves, he himself will be disciplined right there on the street. And so it is when there is trouble at Sanlitun. For his efforts, the OP got a beating from organised professionals, on the payroll as bartenders perhaps, but 地痞 above all.

You simply do not mess with the local thugs in China.

[somethingfunny]

Where do all you guys spend your time!?  I've lived in China for four years and I've not witnessed any significant violence.  Maybe a couple of bar fights, but nothing that wouldn't be out of place in the UK.  I've certainly never seen any local rackets going round beating up street vendors!

 

It's like when people say stuff like "Oh, don't go to that bar, they hate foreigners in there and you'll get beaten up if you go in there", then I look to see which bar it is and it's the one I was in the previous night with a load of Chinese people having a great time.

 

I'd judge intervention on a case-by-case basis.  The mistake the OP has made is that the person they were trying to help out was a foreigner, so by being himself a foreigner he is immediately put into the same class as the person the thugs are trying to beat up.  Admirable actions, but ultimately doomed.  Don't forget, also, that you were trying to protect a criminal.

 

I remember I once intervened in a bar fight in the UK and ended up standing between the two parties.  I was telling one guy to calm down while he looked, furiously, over my shoulder at the guy he was fighting, then his gaze shifted slightly and instead of staring at the guy behind me, he was staring at me.  At which point I promptly stepped to one side and let them get on with it.

[eion_padraig]

@889 - That's a very interesting point you bring up about protection rackets in commercial areas.

 

Back when I lived in Shanghai in the early 2000's, I had a friend teaching English in Nanjing. Apparently, one of her colleagues or at least another foreign English teacher was getting together with this Chinese girl who had a boyfriend already. The girl's boyfriend was a gangster who operated out of one of the bars that was popular for foreigners. Apparently it was thought/well-known that all the Nanjing bars were run by gangsters back then. In a case of mistaken identity, the gangster and his buddies ended up attacking another foreign English teacher they thought was the fellow who was getting together with the guy's girlfriend. My friend (a foreign woman) and her other friend (another foreign woman) tried to stop the attack on their friend and were also attacked. The guy (who ironically was gay) ended up with a glass bottle being broken on his head. They were able to get into a cab and flee. Other than having to get glass plucked out of his head and stitches, the guy was okay and the two women ended up with some bruises.

 

This was certainly a time in China when foreigners generally were treated with a lot of deference by local people. I think the authorities were a lot more concerned about negative stories involving foreigners getting out into the foreign media, so they were much more likely to come down on this kind of thing. Around this same time I had heard a bar was shut down in Shanghai after the death of a Chinese American guy following him getting beaten up in a bar (locals thought he was Taiwanese). But even then you could have these kinds of things happening from time to time.

 

In the end, I still think China is a relatively safe place. I do think caution needs to be used when involving oneself in situations like the one the OP described, but I get why they thought to help out too.