Is China safe for foreigners?

[洋人丹]

Sorry, but some of the comments in this thread...

 

@Frederik

 

The domestic violence thing was more a reply to this poster

 

 

Some Chinese guys are cowards, can never fight one on one, need a dozen of their friends before anything kicks off. Also some don't seem to have any issues beating up a woman. In my country its the worst of the worse to hit a girl. The crowd would get involved if that happened and the guy would find himself on the end a beating. But in China, I have seen this more than a few times, on the subway, night time, a guy dragging a girl by the hair on the street or slamming her head into something.Cowardly

 

 

This kind of thing smacks of racism and the superiority complex I see among lots of non-Asian men who come to China (not trying to make a statement on the poster's identity, just saying where I commonly hear that kind of language). My point with the 1 in 4 women in the US face domestic abuse statistic, is that violence against women is something that happens everywhere. Granted, it is much worse in some places than others, but to say that only cowards or the worst of the worst do it completely ignores the severity of the problem and the socio-economic and psychological reasons to why those kinds of things happen. It is much more common than people want to believe, and that "it doesn't happen where I'm from/ only the worst of the worst do that here". That kind of attitude shows how warped one's views can be of one's own society. So much research exists about the causes of domestic violence, don't just say "cowards" and "bad people" and then shrug your shoulders like nothing can be done.

 

The second thing that's funny is the poster says some Chinese men are cowards and never fight one on one as if it's some horrible thing, and then mentions a crowd might beat a man who hits a woman in public. Is violent beating of an individual by a mob fine if the individual was committing a crime? Why can't they use non-violent measures to stop or subdue him? A crowd ganging up on one guy sounds like something those "cowardly Chinese men" would do.

 

 

 

But taking it as a lesson, it illustrates an absolute rule of behaviour in China, one never to be broken:

Do not involve yourself in others' disputes, no matter if they're going at someone with iron bars. Ever. 

 

It's funny because no matter how many times my wife hears foreigners say this, she can't help but roll her eyes.

 

First: The idea of people seeing domestic disputes or violence happening and just not helping is something that happens everywhere. A lot less people will get involved in other's disputes than you think. That is not just a Chinese thing.

 

Second: The idea that no one should get involved in other people's business is a thought that exists among a lot of people, but nowhere is it an absolute rule of behavior in China. Chinese people aren't a hive mind, and plenty of people will get involved or try to stop disputes. The idea of not getting involved exists as a sentiment for a lot of people, and one that many want to change.

 

Speaking from the experience of the household I grew up in (American), some posters are very very very mistaken if they think that everyone in their country would just run to help a woman being verbally or physically abused in a public or semi-public place. Stepping aside or pretending you don't notice is not just some Chinese cultural thing. Not getting involved is much more common than you think.

 

Really really sorry for this post. I know it is off-topic, but some of the stuff people said really touched a nerve with me and I had to get it out of my system.

[889]

I was addressing foreigners in China. I didn't say or imply that Chinese don't sometimes intervene. Indeed, if two guys are coming to blows on the street convention seems to require a third to intervene and break them apart; otherwise they might be locked in a menacing standoff for eternity, neither willing to stand down.

But unlike foreigners, Chinese who intervene are aware of local customs. And I'll wager very strongly that if it seems local gangsters are involved, even the most self-less of Chinese will steer clear.

[vellocet]

It's nice that we can take a post about idiot laowai being attacked and turn it, yet again, into another American domestic politics issue.  IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU, PEOPLE, STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT TO YOURSELF.  America is just another foreign country, you're not special AND STOP PRETENDING THAT YOU ARE.  Sheesh. 

[Altair]

FYI, here is an excerpt from Friday's New York Times:

 

Daylight Killing Brings Beijing District of Sanlitun Under Scrutiny

 

By AUSTIN RAMZY   AUGUST 14, 2015 7:20 AM

The killing of a young Chinese woman and the wounding of her French husband by a man with a sword in Beijing on Thursday refocused the country’s attention on one of the Chinese capital’s most famous districts, an increasingly upscale place known for shopping, eating and drinking, but sometimes tinged with an edge of crime and violence.

The district, Sanlitun, inside the eastern stretch of the city’s Third Ring Road, was once a village. Its name comes from its location — three Chinese miles, san li, or about one English mile, outside the former city wall. It became a residential and diplomatic quarter in the 1960s and ’70s. Later, as China opened up, it became the site of foreign exchange stores and some of Beijing’s first Western-style bars.

***

The Uniqlo outlet became a national topic after a video of two people having sex in a dressing room circulated widely online last month. The assault on Thursday happened in the courtyard in front of the store, which is often filled with shoppers and tourists taking photographs.

The Apple store, particularly the area outside its doors, has been the scene of scuffles between scalpers and staff members when new products are released, such as the iPad 2 in 2011 and the iPhone 4S in 2012.

Despite the proximity of a police station, the district is known for illicit drug sales. The police often seem to turn a blind eye to the trade, but they sometimes carry out sweeps targeting foreign dealers. Such raids have been criticized for racial profiling of black men and for the levels of violence sometimes used against them.

A recent article in China Newsweek examined an entire night in the neighborhood, conveying a wild, exhausting and sometimes grim experience.

“Sometimes you can feel all of Sanlitun is sinking into exhaustion,” it said. “Foreigners and Chinese alike are talking about the same topics: pollution, housing and the price of things.”

The article said the district had “Beijing’s longest night,” where foreigners and Chinese party until morning. “By morning the Sanlitun taxi drivers will take the crowds away,” it continued. “They witness all kinds of vomit, fantastic crying and strange screaming.”

 

[Frederik451]

@vellocet

 

The comments in this thread are all within the subject of my original post. 洋人丹 mentioned the domestic violence when we started talking about whether or not girls would get beat up in other countries as well. So it might not be about bartenders beating customers, but It's not irrelevant.

 

 

Anyway, I'm glad you people took the time to comment. I definitely learned a few things. Especially about Sanlitun in particular.

 

Have a nice day

[imron]

Actually, as someone *not* from the US, I found 洋人丹's comments mentioning the US useful because they provided a direct contrast to the post 洋人丹 was responding to which didn't mention any nationality at all - rather just 'in my country' which makes it difficult for anyone to refute or debate that point with hard statistics because no specific country was mentioned - although from memory Johnny20270 is from the UK.

 

Anyway, by explicitly mentioning a country, we can start to look at some hard data that can show the differences between perceived reality (it's the lowest of the low to hit a woman) and actual reality (1 in X women are subject to violence).

 

Note also that it's possible for something to be looked down upon by society at large (men hitting women) while still being common in private (see for example domestic abuse statistics). I'd certainly agree that in my country (Australia) it's generally considered cowardly and low for a man to hit a woman, but at the same time I'm aware that domestic abuse statistics don't particularly support that view.

[tysond]

 

 

Second: The idea that no one should get involved in other people's business is a thought that exists among a lot of people, but nowhere is it an absolute rule of behavior in China. Chinese people aren't a hive mind, and plenty of people will get involved or try to stop disputes. The idea of not getting involved exists as a sentiment for a lot of people, and one that many want to change.

 

My personal experience is just one instance, but I saw at least 20 people ride past a man on the side of the road, who had fallen off a bike and was unconscious with blood coming out of his head forming a pool on the ground.  I was the one, despite language challenges, who stopped and called an ambulance.

 

However, I did have the road cleaner come to my assistance once I started.  He not only helped me with addresses in an unfamiliar area with the many phone calls I had to handle, but he also was careful to protect me by telling the crowd to go away (unfortunately, the crowd only came once I was clearly calling for help and stopped), told the ambulance personnel that I only came to the scene after it happened (actually I don't think he knew if that was true or not) and sent me away once the ambulance folks had arrived to ensure I was no longer involved.

 

Given my experience in this one matter, I would say that I was disappointed at the overall behavior of people.  

The least capable person (me) was the one who called for an ambulance.  However there was another person who gives me hope - the street cleaner - who behaved very well and tried not only to help, but to protect me from being blamed for doing the right thing.   

 

So I agree with the quote above.  The non-involvement principle is not universal, but it is too common.  There are still good people who do the right thing.  

 

I wish there were more.

[gato]

It's really a shame. It's due to the lack of trust and an increase in selfishness. Compared this to the guys who just tackled the terrorist with an AK-47 in France.

[Simon_CH]

I mentioned it on another thread once, but Sanlitun is notorious for these kind of things, there are so many beatings, stabbings and general violence mostly against foreigners that I tend to avoid the bar street altogether. As you all know a girl that was in our wider circle of friends well got stabbed to death in Sanlitun, just a week earlier another friend of ours, also female, got beaten by 6 or 7 Chinese guys after they insulted her in a bar and got hospitalized. A bit earlier still some rikshaw drivers attacked me after they stopped somewhere with me on board, fortunately I escaped. A week ago I saw a seemingly drunk Chinese guy pull a flip knife in a provincial night club... I'm honestly a bit worn out and don't believe that whole "China is safe" slogan that I myself would have told people a year or two ago anymore...