RARE DUAL Chinese and U.S Citizenship, PLEASE HELP.

[gato]

1. If you have a U.S. passport, you are a U.S. citizen and your US green card is no longer valid (regardless of the expiration date).

2. You didn't explain the circumstances of your green card application. I am guessing that your mom was not a U.S. citizen when you were born, and that you became a naturalized citizen after you entered the U.S. and got your green card. U.S. green card applications (for permanent residency) must be made while living in the U.S. You probably entered the U.S. initially on a visa.

3. If you want to go to China on you Chinese passport, what some people do is:

- first, go to a third jurisdiction like HK on your U.S. Passport

- enter mainland China from HK on your PRC passport

The leave the mainland, you'd reverse that:

- enter HK from mainland on your Chinese passport

- enter the U.S. from HK on your US passport

There are risks involved in doing as others have pointed out, so consider the risks carefully.

[889]

The OP's mother may well have been a US citizen when the OP was born in China, but may not have met the prior US residency test required to pass on US citizenship in this case.

I suspect that after entering the US and residing with her mother, the OP automatically became a US citizen under the special provisions of the Child Citizenship Act of 2000. There's no need for any citizenship application under this law; a child who meets the requirements automatically becomes a US citizen. Thus, like acquiring citizenship at birth, there's an involuntary aspect to it.

In any event, the OP seems to be conflating two issues:

One, given the involuntary manner in which US citizenship was apparently imposed on her, does she automatically lose her Chinese nationality? I think she needs to get some Chinese legal advice on this. The issue may not be as clear as some think.

Two, if there is a problem with her Chinese nationality, can she still get away with using her Chinese passport? That's a question others can address.

[Silent]

 

In situations like this I am tempted to just advise people to go with the clearly riskier option, because if you choose that and things go wrong, and it's China, so the probability is quite high of things going wrong, you will learn some kind of lesson about how you just can't have everything you want all the time. You don't get to be a dual Chinese and American citizen, it just doesn't happen, so trying to find loopholes is kind of silly, isn't it? Another option might be "don't travel to China at all and keep your pseudo-Chinese-citizenship forever" but that is probably not as palatable.

How do you know it's riskier? Sure, from a point of legal protection/rights being treated as a Chinese is not the best option, but foregoing Chinese citizenship is a risk too, as you give up attached liabilities and benefits. Specially when seeing a future in China Chinese citizenship may be worthwhile. To assess risk properly you need to know more about the situation and what op values.

 

If I read the above and understand the situation there are loopholes.

- Travel with Chinese passport and US Greencard

- Travel through a third country that's visa free for Chinese (entry/exit stamps may still cause a problem)

 

 

The chinese government SHOULDN'T make me choose between my parents. It's not about getting everything I want as you rudely stated. It's also not about finding loopholes. It's about basic human right. It's about Jus Sanguinis and Jus Soli.

Choosing a citizenship has nothing to do with choosing between your parents. It may feel so as  you may associate the passport with them, they are however entirely different things.

 

I think it's just a matter of deciding what is important to you.

- Dual citizenship with associated hassle and risks as it's illegal according to Chinese law

- The sentimental value you attach to dual citizenship

- The (future) value of the two passports (What are the benefits and liabilities associated? How hard/easy is it to get Chinese citizenship back if you give it up now and 'need' it later?)

 

I strongly doubt jus sanguinis and jus soli are basic human rights, there are only very few countries that unconditionally apply it. Nevertheless, jus sanguinis and jus soli are about a right of citizenship. That does not mean an unconditional right. China offers you the right under the condition you submit to Chinese law (forbidding dual citizenship). They granted you the citizenship, it's up to you or you want to submit to the law and keep it, want to go to great lengths trying to hide that you break the law or want to give it up.

 

Don't know about Chinese citizenship, but if you give up citizenship now does not necessarily mean you give it up forever. You may still be entitled to citizenship. If so it will take some red tape to get your citizenship back.

[陳德聰]

I strongly doubt jus sanguinis and jus soli are basic human rights, there are only very few countries that unconditionally apply it. Nevertheless, jus sanguinis and jus soli are about a right of citizenship. That does not mean an unconditional right. China offers you the right under the condition you submit to Chinese law (forbidding dual citizenship). They granted you the citizenship, it's up to you or you want to submit to the law and keep it, want to go to great lengths trying to hide that you break the law or want to give it up.

This.

[baobao1314]

889 you are correct. thank you for clarifying. I didn't think that needed explaining. 

 

As for Chen De Chong, please stop being a troll and adding in unnecessary snarky remarks. I don't know why you have such a problem with me wanting dual citizenship. Does my "bratty" behavior bother you or something? Your comment about "you can't always get what you want" seriously bothers me. You should tell that to the african americans who fought for civil rights, and just said you can't always get what you want so just deal with racism. You can also say that to the gay people, "hey you can't always get what you want and just deal with not being able to get married." 

 

Yeah, because "suck it up" is really going to solve problems. 

 

I have a problem with the Chinese government in my situation, and I know I'm right. I deserve dual citizenship. Especially for children like me born to two different national parents. Second of all, I completely understand I may be making a bad decision but I'm pretty sure people told Martin Luther King that too. 

Obviously, I'm not comparing my situation to civil rights, but it's still about citizenship rights. 

 

Did you not notice, everyone else was being professional about it. Only you. Adding in snarky remarks and being a completely immature idiot. You just make yourself look bad. 

 

That's my rant. 

 

Thanks to everyone else who helped. 

 

As I've said, I will be getting legal advice. Already in the process of getting a lawyer. 

My uncle said I can probably get away with dual citizenship, because China says they don't recognize dual citizenship. Which is confusing to some people, but essentially, it means they just won't recognize I'm an American.   

 

I'm completely fine with that. I'm not trying to use my American citizenship as a free pass to do shit in china. I obey and respect chinese law. I believe, one day in my lifetime, China will come it its senses and just recongize dual citizenship like many other nations. If they don't, I'm content with just going to China without a visa. It's not about the 140 dollar visa fee I hope you guys know that.

It's about me not wanting to give up my chinese passport. If I do, my father will be hugely disappointed.  I hope you guys can't understand that. 

 

Thanks! 

[baobao1314]

Thanks again to 889, you addressed my concerns exactly. 

[Silent]

 

I deserve dual citizenship.

Interesting, what exactly did you do to deserve it?

 

 

I'm completely fine with that. I'm not trying to use my American citizenship as a free pass to do shit in china. I obey and respect chinese law.

I don't think so, Chinese law doesn't allow dual citizenship.... So, why don't you denounce your US citizenship to meet the no dual citizenship rule?

 

 

China will come it its senses and just recongize dual citizenship like many other nations.

Why is recognizing dual citizenship coming to senses? Isn't it the same as getting married twice without divorcing? Personally I wouldn't have a problem with getting married twice as long as those partners are not high maintenance. I know however many potential partners would have a problem with it as they deem it a lack of commitment. 

 

 

It's about me not wanting to give up my chinese passport. If I do, my father will be hugely disappointed.

Then denounce your US citizenship and the problem is solved in accordance with the Chinese law you claim to obey and respect.

[889]

There are some seriously misleading, absolutist statements here about Chinese nationality law. Those making them are not helping the OP. Nor do they seem to actually understand the law they are discussing.

Here's Article 9 of the Nationality Law:

"第九條　定居外國的中國公民，自願加入或取得外國國籍的，即自動喪失中國國籍."

The crux is whether the OP, in her particular circumstances, 自願加入或取得 US citizenship, with 自願 the critical term. I suppose I could argue it either way, but I think the stronger argument says she did not acquire US citizenship of her own free will, and thus did not lose her Chinese citizenship when she automatically became an American citizen. But to repeat, that's just my reasonable view based on what we know, not an absolute one.

[baobao1314]

To silent: 

 

Citizenship is not something you "do" to deserve. What did you do to deserve your citizenship? Did you save your country from disaster or something? You make it sound like citizenship is something you have to earn. No, it's something you are born with. I never applied for american citizenship, it was GIVEN to me. 

 

I don't "claim" to respect and obey chinese law. I just do. I have never broken any Chinese law. So I do respect it. If you are talking about my american citizenship, then I have nothing to say.You totally win on this argument.  Sorry I can't be like everyone else and be born to parents of the same nationality. Because that's something I can choose. Also, I'm asking a question about legal matters, denouncing one citizenship over the other is not something I'm considering. As if I don't know that already. 

 

Also, To your last statement about denouncing my u.s passport. So let's say I do, and my father is happy. My mom will shit bricks. Any ideas for that? They are divorced, they don't get along. Fix that. 

[m000gle]

The crux articulated by 889 might explain the situation to date where Mibao Xiong is, indeed, a U.S.-P.R.C. dual national.  However, I'm not sure that was ever debatable, nor does it really matter going forward in the context of the original issue: how best to proceed, and which nationality to use, if/when returning to the P.R.C. to live or visit.

One is required to be either a P.R.C. or non-P.R.C. national, while on Chinese soil.  China is also very clear, in practice and in law, that said options are mutually exclusive.

Choosing the former, and entering on a P.R.C. passport, will certainly work but will forgo any non-P.R.C. nationality, as far as China is concerned, while in the country.  Choosing the latter, and entering on a U.S. passport, will require one to renounce any P.R.C. nationality as part of the process.

I really don't understand why this issue is so complicated.

[geraldc]

<pedant> ~It's renounce, not denounce when it comes to giving up citizenship. </pedant>

 

A lot of people from Hong Kong effectively hold dual nationality, China and another country. My dad, my wife etc, all leave the UK on their UK passports, but enter China with their Home Return Permit, which you're only supposed to have if you hold a HK SAR passport. I know of people being not being reissued them, when they expire, but I haven't heard of anyone getting in trouble entering China with one, when they've left their "other" country on their other passport.

 

 

A lot of older dual nationality US citizens around the world are renouncing their US citizenship due to tax reasons. Patriotism is one thing, but double taxation is another thing altogether. 

[Angelina]

If you enter China on a Chinese passport and thus renounce your U.S. citizenship does it mean (1) you are no longer an American citizen as far as China is concerned only or (2) your U.S. passport and green card won't be valid anymore, no matter where you travel? 

[Silent]

 

What did you do to deserve your citizenship?

I don't deserve my citizenship, I got it by chance.

 

 

I don't "claim" to respect and obey chinese law. I just do.

You did claim it, or you really do or don't I can't judge, but  based on your statement about China coming to senses I'ld say your respect for the Chinese law doesn't go very deep.

 

 

Also, To your last statement about denouncing my u.s passport. So let's say I do, and my father is happy. My mom will shit bricks. Any ideas for that?

And what do your parents suggest you do? After all, they put you in this situation. People change nationalities all the time for all kinds of reasons, what's the big deal? Recently I heard about people starting the process to obtain Dutch citizenship because they wanted to go live in Turkey, considering Dutch law, I suspect they have to give up their Turkish citizenship for that! Why so sentimental about something you got by chance and didn't do anything for?

 

 

They are divorced, they don't get along. Fix that.

If you give me their contact details I'll see what I can do......

[gato]

Getting really off topic.

[baobao1314]

To silent: u r a trolllllllll, good for you

And to answer Angelina''s question. U don't loose ur American citizenship, the us tolerates dual citizenship. U do however, loose your Chinese citizenship if u go to china with us passport

[ChTTay]

I really don't understand why this issue is so complicated. - m000gle

 

m000gle has it right again, it seems like there are only so many ways to do this, most of which seem to have been outlined and none of which seem that appealing to you or, I'm sure, others in your situation. One thing that seems sure is that China isn't going to change for you, not in the short time frame you have and not in the way that you'd like.

 

Did you try to find a forum for other people in similar situations as yourself? I see it was suggested previously.

 

It seemed like you were open to entering via a third part country. Any luck looking into this method? Could you meet your Dad in Hong Kong and decide together whether its worth going into China via HK? You could try to seek out someone with more experience in this 'on the ground'.

 

If you can't find a suitable method to enter China then you may have to resolve not to go there right now. Can your father visit you? Could you meet the middle somewhere?

 

I wish I could give you some kind of "ah ha!!" method

[skylee]

The OP went to the US on a PRC passport when she was 8 years old. Assuming that the OP is an adult, wouldn't that Chinese passport be soon expired, if it has not expired already? (I also assume that a passport is good for 10 years.)

[baobao1314]

I have already made up my mind on how to proceed, and when I get back from China I will do an update so people in similar situation can see. 

 

Thanks to all the non trolls. 

[anonymoose]

Enjoy your trip. I hope it goes smoothly.

[ChTTay]

 

I have already made up my mind on how to proceed

 

What did you decide?