每况愈下 or 每下愈况

Ian_Lee · 22nd July 2004, 04:42 AM

Which one of the above idioms is correct?

In my experience, most grade school teachers instruct 每况愈下 but the High School teachers instruct 每下愈况.

Interestingly from Classical Chinese it should be 每下愈况 but according to vernacular Chinese 每况愈下 is self-explanatory.

Even though 每下愈况 is more correct, it seems 每况愈下 has been more widely accepted.

And I did a search in Yahoo which found out that both terms are generally used by the media and even publishers.

Ian_Lee · 22nd July 2004, 04:49 AM

In Google Search, 每下愈况 results in 5,150 entries while 每况愈下 results in 46,100 entries.

The latter is almost 10 times as much as the former.

Well, it seems most Chinese got it wrong.

shibo77 · 22nd July 2004, 05:31 AM

Idioms:
Both are correct. Both are in Classical Chinese but are used differently.

每下愈况 mei3 xia4 yu4 kuang4
(every) (lower) (more) (reality)
the lower >>> more real
"The lower one gets, the closer to reality one arrives at."
This is from «庄子» Zhuang Zi. He states that the lower/baser one observes, the more close to the truth/reality of the situation one arrives at. This is more of a Daoist statement.

每况愈下 mei3 kuang4 yu4 xia4
(every) (situation) (more) (bad)
situation >>> bad, worsen
"The situation becomes worse and worse."
This is a later statement from the Tang dynasty to mean that the situation gets worse and worse. This is more of a statement of life in general.

-Shibo

skylee · 22nd July 2004, 07:46 AM

Yes. My dictionary says -

Quote:

原作"每下愈況", 語出莊子-知北遊, 是說用腳踩豬的小腿來檢測其肥瘦, 越是踩在下端越能檢測清楚. 況:指因對比而明顯. 後世多作"每況愈下", 表示情況越來越差. 況:指狀況.

Ian_Lee · 22nd July 2004, 07:47 AM

But now both idioms have the same meaning "to deteriorate".

Read: http://army.jsinfo.net/detail/detailtxt.asp?id=14435

首先是扁当局上台初期，倾力维护台美关系，然而自去年陈水扁“总统”拋出“一边一国论”以来，一直到今年六月诉求“核四公投”、“WHO公投”，不仅双方互信每下愈况，甚至连军售、经贸方面均频生龃龉。

Ian_Lee · 23rd July 2004, 04:19 AM

Actually the usage of both idioms are incorrect.

Even though 每况愈下 started to be used from Tang (or Song) Dynasty, most likely it was mistakenly derived from 每下愈况.

While 每下愈况 has now greatly deviated from its original meaning.

But on the other hand, I would say both idioms are correct under current usage.

Language is lively and alive. If most people in the society take the wrong to be correct, then so be it.

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22nd July 2004, 04:42 AM	#1
Ian_Lee	每况愈下 or 每下愈况 Which one of the above idioms is correct? In my experience, most grade school teachers instruct 每况愈下 but the High School teachers instruct 每下愈况. Interestingly from Classical Chinese it should be 每下愈况 but according to vernacular Chinese 每况愈下 is self-explanatory. Even though 每下愈况 is more correct, it seems 每况愈下 has been more widely accepted. And I did a search in Yahoo which found out that both terms are generally used by the media and even publishers.

22nd July 2004, 04:49 AM	#2
Ian_Lee	In Google Search, 每下愈况 results in 5,150 entries while 每况愈下 results in 46,100 entries. The latter is almost 10 times as much as the former. Well, it seems most Chinese got it wrong.

22nd July 2004, 05:31 AM	#3
shibo77	Idioms: Both are correct. Both are in Classical Chinese but are used differently. 每下愈况 mei3 xia4 yu4 kuang4 (every) (lower) (more) (reality) the lower >>> more real "The lower one gets, the closer to reality one arrives at." This is from «庄子» Zhuang Zi. He states that the lower/baser one observes, the more close to the truth/reality of the situation one arrives at. This is more of a Daoist statement. 每况愈下 mei3 kuang4 yu4 xia4 (every) (situation) (more) (bad) situation >>> bad, worsen "The situation becomes worse and worse." This is a later statement from the Tang dynasty to mean that the situation gets worse and worse. This is more of a statement of life in general. -Shibo

22nd July 2004, 07:46 AM	#4
skylee	Yes. My dictionary says - Quote: 原作"每下愈況", 語出莊子-知北遊, 是說用腳踩豬的小腿來檢測其肥瘦, 越是踩在下端越能檢測清楚. 況:指因對比而明顯. 後世多作"每況愈下", 表示情況越來越差. 況:指狀況.

22nd July 2004, 07:47 AM	#5
Ian_Lee	But now both idioms have the same meaning "to deteriorate". Read: http://army.jsinfo.net/detail/detailtxt.asp?id=14435 首先是扁当局上台初期，倾力维护台美关系，然而自去年陈水扁“总统”拋出“一边一国论”以来，一直到今年六月诉求“核四公投”、“WHO公投”，不仅双方互信每下愈况，甚至连军售、经贸方面均频生龃龉。

23rd July 2004, 04:19 AM	#6
Ian_Lee	Actually the usage of both idioms are incorrect. Even though 每况愈下 started to be used from Tang (or Song) Dynasty, most likely it was mistakenly derived from 每下愈况. While 每下愈况 has now greatly deviated from its original meaning. But on the other hand, I would say both idioms are correct under current usage. Language is lively and alive. If most people in the society take the wrong to be correct, then so be it.