rising 3rd tone sandhi different than 2nd tone?

webmagnets · 22nd November 2009, 09:04 PM

After lots of listening to Pimsleur I am starting to wonder if I am right or wrong. Does anyone else find that the 3rd tone before another 3rd tone sounds different than a 2nd tone? It sounds like it is more stressed and maybe that it goes higher than the normal 2nd tone.

克里斯托弗 · 23rd November 2009, 12:01 AM

what happened to the good old "big third tone" ?

some years ago I was taught that a third tone before another third tone has to be pronounced like a big third tone, or a fourth and a second tone...

recently my teacher told me that nowadays people/ teachers prefer saying that it's more like a second tone, following a third tone. if there are 3 third tones in a row it means that the first two transform into second tones and the last one is a third tone.

I am not sure how it is different to a "real" second tone tho...

analgesia · 23rd November 2009, 12:16 AM

For e.g jiu3 jiu3 gui1 yi1 (九九归一） see the first jiu3 is like jiu2,while seems to be even higher than mei2 you3 没有，because the first jiu is meant to deffer with the following jiu,thus it has been stressed on purpose .

However,it is just subtle enough for one to distinguish the issue. No big deal.you may forget about it

anonymoose · 23rd November 2009, 01:12 AM

I can't say I've noticed this specifically (not that I've listened to pimsler), but no two people will speak identically. There will be natural variation (and quite substantial at that) from one speaker to another, so I wouldn't be surprised if you sometimes hear tones different from what you are used to. Sometimes this can affect just individual syllables (variation in pronunciation), other times it can affect the overall tonal contours in the sentence (variation in accent).

renzhe · 23rd November 2009, 04:19 AM

Pimsleur is a bit confusing when saying that the first tone in 你好 is a second (rising) tone.

They do it because it's easier to explain it to a total beginner, but it's actually one of several ways to pronounce the third tone.

And it's close enough to the second tone that it doesn't matter.

23rd November 2009, 04:19 AM	#5
renzhe First Episodes Captain	Re: rising 3rd tone sandhi different than 2nd tone? Pimsleur is a bit confusing when saying that the first tone in 你好 is a second (rising) tone. They do it because it's easier to explain it to a total beginner, but it's actually one of several ways to pronounce the third tone. And it's close enough to the second tone that it doesn't matter.

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22nd November 2009, 09:04 PM	#1
webmagnets	rising 3rd tone sandhi different than 2nd tone? After lots of listening to Pimsleur I am starting to wonder if I am right or wrong. Does anyone else find that the 3rd tone before another 3rd tone sounds different than a 2nd tone? It sounds like it is more stressed and maybe that it goes higher than the normal 2nd tone.

23rd November 2009, 12:01 AM	#2
克里斯托弗	Re: rising 3rd tone sandhi different than 2nd tone? what happened to the good old "big third tone" ? some years ago I was taught that a third tone before another third tone has to be pronounced like a big third tone, or a fourth and a second tone... recently my teacher told me that nowadays people/ teachers prefer saying that it's more like a second tone, following a third tone. if there are 3 third tones in a row it means that the first two transform into second tones and the last one is a third tone. I am not sure how it is different to a "real" second tone tho...

23rd November 2009, 12:16 AM	#3
analgesia	Re: rising 3rd tone sandhi different than 2nd tone? For e.g jiu3 jiu3 gui1 yi1 (九九归一） see the first jiu3 is like jiu2,while seems to be even higher than mei2 you3 没有，because the first jiu is meant to deffer with the following jiu,thus it has been stressed on purpose . However,it is just subtle enough for one to distinguish the issue. No big deal.you may forget about it

23rd November 2009, 01:12 AM	#4
anonymoose	Re: rising 3rd tone sandhi different than 2nd tone? I can't say I've noticed this specifically (not that I've listened to pimsler), but no two people will speak identically. There will be natural variation (and quite substantial at that) from one speaker to another, so I wouldn't be surprised if you sometimes hear tones different from what you are used to. Sometimes this can affect just individual syllables (variation in pronunciation), other times it can affect the overall tonal contours in the sentence (variation in accent).