The differences: 儿 ér / 小孩儿 / 小孩 ？

[Nephand]

I see 儿 attached to the end of a lot of words. Is this as a diminutive term?

It (儿) seems to mean 'child', but then so does 小孩儿 and apparently so does 小孩。

Are these all related to the age of the child being referred to? 儿 for a baby, 小孩儿 for a 'toddler' and 小孩 for older children?

Thanks in advance.

[geek_frappa]

good question, i don't know why they use ER.
roddy or 39degN would know. those crazy northerners.
in northern china. everybody says ER...

右邊兒的
小狗兒
這兒
邊兒
辮兒
馬兒

... i always wonder why they always attach everything ...
some teacher want me to speak with beijing accent.
some want me to speak with southern accent without the 兒

[roddy]

This will help. It can be a diminutive term, but it can also distinguish between two different meanings. It's also used by Beijing taxi-drivers to annoy people:

去哪儿?
北京图书馆
哪儿?
北京图书馆
哪儿?
北京图书馆
北京图书馆儿?
对
好了

The next day, thinking I'd figured it out:
去哪儿?
北京图书馆儿
哪儿?
北京图书馆儿
哪儿?
北京图书馆儿
北京图书馆?
对
好了

[Nephand]

roddy

Thank you both

I can see more clearly how it fits into the dialogue I'm looking at now.

[trien27]

the ER or -r at the end is the influence of Communism over the Chinese language. Take a look at Taiwan & Hong Kong, there's no such character at the end of phrases. Most nouns in Mainland China ends in er or -r as in Huar, flower, where in Taiwan & Hong Kong you omit the -r ending and just write the single character! Before Mao took control of China(1945-1949 & after), they don't have it in any context at all.

[skylee]

trien, that does not seem very true. I think the use of 儿化韵 in Putonghua is because of the influence of the Beijing dialect on which Putonghua is based. Do correct me if I am wrong.

Personally I think the use of 儿 is often not necessary.

[chris.]

My chinese teacher from beijing says it just an accent. It just sounds cool.

女孩儿

鸟儿

鱼儿

These are just a couple i have encountered.

[hparade]

I think it doesn't has much to do with communism, more of a beijing thing, sometimes it add some cuteness to stuffs, but sometimes, especially when being over-used, is very annoying to southern ears...

[Altair]

I have had friends tell me that in Taiwan and in parts of the mainland, you will provoke laughter if you add "r's" to the ends of words as a foreigner. I was told this produces an effect like a foreigner speaking English with a strong Brooklyn or perhaps a Cockney accent. How true is this, and if this is true, is there some reason why so many textbooks push words ending in r's rather than teaching a more neutral accent?

What types of words absolutely need "r's" in "colorless" Mandarin? Can you say things like "hua4 hua4" ("paint pictures"), "qu4 wan2" ("go and have fun") or "man4man1de5 zou3" ("go slowly")?

[roddy]

Quote:

What types of words absolutely need "r's" in "colorless" Mandarin?

I would say that the words with the 'r' in the textbook (ie 玩儿, 小孩儿, etc) won't get laughed at - that's common enough nationwide. Others like 门儿, 本儿 and 北京图书馆儿 are more Beijinghua than Putonghua. If in doubt, follow the textbook. Am I right? Also, I'm speaking from a mainland context.

Quote:

the ER or -r at the end is the influence of Communism over the Chinese language

Hmmm, Cuban cig儿, Russian vodk儿?

Quote:

Most nouns in Mainland China ends in er or -r

Most? I find that very unlikely.

Quote:

Before Mao took control of China(1945-1949 & after), they don't have it in any context at all.

I don't believe that the 儿 had anything to do with communism. But is it a more recent feature of the language?

Roddy

[nnt]

As eve儿ybody knows, Chinese language is WYSINWY儿: What you see is NOT what you 儿ead :
小孩 would be 儿ead 小孩儿 by a standa儿d Beijinhua儿 pe儿son even if the 儿 is omitted , and 儿eve儿sely a p儿oud non-Beijing pe儿son wouldn't p儿onounce the 儿 even if it was p儿inted...
So it is 儿ight that

Quote:

Most nouns in Mainland China ends in er or -r

[Lu]

去玩 is very southern, it sounds strange to me, not standard. Some erhua is standard putonghua, some is Beifanhua. 花 and 鸟 can do without the 儿, but 去玩儿 or 慢慢儿的走 can't.

[shibo77]

儿(兒) er2 have many meanings, and one of the uses is that of a diminutive suffix where fondness is expressed. If you have studied German or Spanish before, it is similar to the -chen, -lein, and -ito suffixes.
It is not just used in the north. As far south as Hunan uses this as a diminutive suffix since early times. The government in Taiwan had a plan called 國音ㄦ化韻 the National Phonetic "Er-isation" Rhyme, this rhyme was to help Taiwanese pronounce with the "er2" suffix. In my opinion, it was very superficial. Taiwanese tended to pronounce fully the er2, along with its rising pitch (2nd). they would say something like, Yu2'er2. Beijingners would pronounce the suffix by assimiliating the "e", and pronouncing the "r", with the pitch of the previous word:
鱼+儿 (yu2+er2) >>> 鱼 or 鱼儿 (yur2)

In the People's Republic, actually writing out the 儿 er2 (Simplified/Hanyu Pinyin) is substandard, although, when speaking, pronouncing the er2 is the standard, because the government is in Beijing, and Beijing dialect is the standard, just as Londoner's English, Parisian's French, it has little to do with communism. 官话(官話) Guan1 Hua4 Bureaucratic Speech of the various dynasties were all based on the dialect of the capital.
In Taiwan, the government's standard in literary writing would be to omit the 兒 er (Traditional/Tongyong Pinyin), standard speech would be to omit the er. But the standard in conversational textbooks after the 國音ㄦ化韻 the National Phonetic "Er-isation" Rhyme plan was promulgated, was to actually write out the "兒 er". Nowadays, the plan has lost its popularity, and this rule is less and less being adhered to.
As to the antiquity of this word, it is quite old, and not just a recent phenomenon. There were 4 meanings for this word in classical Chinese. One of the four was the function of a diminutive suffix. Here is a poem from the Tang2 Dynasty by a famous poet 杜甫 Du2 Pu3 titled «水槛遣兴» uses "兒 er2" as a diminutive suffix. "细雨鱼兒出,微風燕子斜. Xi4 yu3 yu2 er2 chu1, wei1 feng1 yan4 zi5 xie2. Light rain, the fishies come out; gentle breeze, the swallows lean." Sorry for my literal translation, but notice the use of "兒 er2" as a diminutive suffix for "鱼yu2" fish >> fishie.

I hope this helped.

- Shibo