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freefall

在+ personal pronoun + 这/那/哪 + 里

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freefall

For example: 放在你们这里 = leave it here for you guys

Can anyone explain this pattern? Does the personal pronoun act as an adjective to modify the 这/那/哪 + 里? I asked a native speaker if one can insert 的 in between the 你们 and the 这里 but she said no. Does that mean it's not an adjective? She also said you can't remove the 这里 at the end.

I understand the pattern 在 。。。 里 but I'm used to the 。。。 being only 1 word.

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FSO

When certain prepositions (在/从/到/etc.) are used with pronouns, it is necessary to convert the pronoun into a location word. This is done by adding 这儿/那儿/身上, etc. This is particularly necessary to avoid sounding like a foreigner, since it's omission is a common mistake.

Here's an example:

I have his dictionary. (As in, his dictionary is over here, with me.)

Common learner's erroneous translation: * 我有他的词典.

Proper construction: 他的词典在我这儿.

Note that the above examples focus on the location of the item, so context is important.

I have a dictionary. (I own a dictionary.) : 我有一本词典.

I have a dictionary. (I have a dictionary with me.) : 一本词典在我这儿.

I've been studying Chinese for more than a year - full time - and I only just came across this last week, so I guess it's not the kind of thing that's normally covered early on in a course. I should note that I am most familiar with Beijing-influenced putonghua (as is my teacher), so I'm probably not aware of potential regional variations.

Hope that helps. . . .

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Altar_II

放在你们这里 does NOT equals "leave it here for you guys"...

literally, it just means "put it in your place"

here 里 does not mean 'in'

这里 together is a word, meaning 'here'

你们 here modifies 这里 in the role of appositive, to point out that 这里(here) refer to where 你们 are.

的 cannot be placed between 你们 & 这里. 的 following a noun or pronoun would form a genitive, its obvious that 'your here' is nonsensical.

Also we can say 放在Tom那里 放在学校那里

since the object of 在 must clearly belong to the classifaction of location/place, some words that are not clearly indicating a place cannot be directly guide by 在. it cannot be expressed like 在你们,because 你们 does not belong to the classifaction of location/place. By using 你们这里/你们那里, its classification becomes the concept of location, hence can be guide by 在.

some other words, like 学校, can be seen as a concept of location or place. thus the "这里/那里" is optional. either "在学校" or "在学校那里" is OK. but there seems to be some subtle difference between the meanings of these two expression.

there's also some words/phrases belonging to no classifaction other than location/place, these words can never be followed by "这里/那里". For example 桌上. it already indicates a place, and cannot be classified to any other category. "桌上那里" is a seriously freak expression.

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goldie

-there's also some words/phrases belonging to no classifaction other than location/place, these words can never be followed by "这里/那里". For example 桌上. it already indicates a place, and cannot be classified to any other category. "桌上那里" is a seriously freak expression.-

thanks, you made some really good points.

just wanted to point out that you could say 桌子那里 because 上 is what indicates location. obvious to some, but maybe not others.

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