Visa questions?????? "L" and "D"

[Pengyou]

As usual, when you ask a visa question you need to specify what country you are from. It is getting harder and harder to convert visas in country. I received an email recently from our head office stating that it would no longer be possible to convert tourist visa's into F visa's without leaving the country. This is for American's. The general feeling in this country is that everything is getting stricter for the Olympics. Don't take a chance. For a little more money you can take a nice relaxing train ride to Hong Kong, have a couple of days vacation, eat lots of good cantonese food and get a visa that no one can question.

[woliveri]

yeah,

Just give a call before you come:

http://www.visainchina.com/visa1.htm

These guys speak English and I've never had a problem. They also keep their website pretty much up to date.

[xray83]

I'm Canadian.

[Suvlaco]

I'm from Australia and at the start of this year I had a 6 month, 1 entry tourist visa while I was volunteering at a school in Xi'an... just incase that helps anyone...

[nitropuppy]

If your already in China with a tourist visa and want to upgrade to the "Z" visa or work visa, you will be required to leave the mainland for the upgrade. The government of China considers Hong Kong outside the mainland, so you can go there to upgrade. But you will need officially stamped working documents from the employer and restamped by the PSB. (Public Security Bureau) You'll need three to four passport photo's and you'll need to be at the Consulate early in the morning. Like around 8:00-8:30 am. (The lines form early) The doors usually open at 9 am and they'll cut the line off after about 60 people register paperwork.

Technically, you can't work in China on a tourist visa. Several schools have convinced foreign teachers to go ahead and come here to work on the tourist visa or tell them it's no problem switching in country. This is asking for trouble. Get the "Z" visa done before you come. Do things correctly and by the letter of the laws and you'll have no problem. Cheat and cut corners and you'll regret it in numerous ways.

I am married to a Chinese citizen and had a one year tourist visa. I was still required to leave the mainland in order to get my work "Z" visa. Hong Kong ain't cheap either. The prices for everything are simular to New York city or London. Be prepared to blow at least $1,000 USD or 7,500 RMB. on a 2-3 day stay with hotels, taxis, meals, and visa fee's. And that's a no frills trip too. Also, Hong Kong has different currency than the mainland. Hong Kong dollars are of less value than the RMB. right now. Convert your cash at the airport and save yourself from getting ripped off by taxi drivers who will gladly take your Chinese RMB. at Hong Kong dollar price rates.

Once back in China you will still need to get your "Foreign Expert" paperwork as well as your "residence permit". Which can be gotten with help from your employer and with the upgraded "Z" visa. Once you have these credentials, you can come and go from China without specific entry/exit numbers or fee's. The "Z" visa can be renewed in Country by the employer and you won't need to exit the mainland. This is done by a simple visit to the local PSB. Those fee's are nominal and usually paid by the employer.

If your flying within China, try to avoid China Air. Their track record isn't the greatest. They have older aircraft and their maintainence crews are bicycle mechanics at best. Personally, I like Dragon Air. They route from most major cities within China with direct flights to Hong Kong. They've got newer aircraft, top notch maintenance crews and pilots who are in the top tier of the profession. Hope this helps some.

[msittig]

Several interesting things about the last post, since this thread seems to have run its course and be wandering aimlessly.

Be prepared to blow at least $1,000 USD or 7,500 RMB. on a 2-3 day stay with hotels, taxis, meals, and visa fee's.

This is true, unless you live in Mirador Mansions for USD 20 a night, dine on shrimp wontons in noodles (yum), see a movie or two, and take the subway on your trips around town.

Convert your cash at the airport and save yourself from getting ripped off by taxi drivers who will gladly take your Chinese RMB.

Or change your RMB with the money changing windows at the electronics stores in Tsim Sha Tsui, or better yet at the jewelers. Make sure they have rates posted publicly.

Once back in China you will still need to get your "Foreign Expert" paperwork as well as your "residence permit".

This I'm curious about. Do they still issue Foreign Expert booklets elsewhere in China? In Shanghai (where I'm at) they've done away with it. And your residence permit is now just a part of your visa, so no applying for that separately either.

Finally, about visas in general. Basically, official policy changes every year or two, and also depends on the mood/local customs/phase of the moon in the locality where you are applying — in some places more than others — so don't depend on hearsay for your visa advice (unless it's a really general question): call the PSB or Border Control Office or consulate where you will be applying for the visa, and get it from their own mouth. Do this twice, a couple days apart, to make sure you're getting the official answer — and don't get indignant if the answer changes, just call again. Best yet, pay a visit and get an answer face-to-face. Really, that's the best way.

[roddy]

And your residence permit is now just a part of your visa, so no applying for that separately either.

I think Shanghai is a bit ahead of the curve when it comes to visas, but up here in Dalian, on a student visa, the residence permit is still separate from the visa. The X visa that got me into the country is very clearly canceled, and I have another piece of paper marked Residence Permit. It gets stuck into the passport like a visa, looks like a visa, and functions as an unlimited reentry visa. But it's not a duck.

[nitropuppy]

Yeah "Roddy", that's how it is in Sichuan Province. The residence Permit is issued by the PSB and looks very simular to the visa paper. They both get stuck to a seperate page within the applicants passport book. The residence permit acts as a come and go paper as far as travel outside the country goes.

In Chengdu, the U.S. consulate is almost the last place to go for correct information. On several issues they gave me wrong advice, wrong addresses, and wrong paperwork. All with a bad attitude thrown in for a bonus. As posted just before, the best thing to do is to go in person to the issueing Chinese authority for a face to face. ie; marriage bureau, PSB, or various Chinese Consulates.

[msittig]

To reinforce what nitropuppy said, when I said consulate I meant Chinese consulate outside of China, not US consulate in China. I have never gone to the US consulate for matters relating to Chinese law and visas, but from what I hear they are as clueless as the rest.

[ms2002sss]

Is this the same rules for British nationals? Going to HK to renew a visa I mean?

I am moving to Hunan with my Chinese wife. But she now has a British passport so would this cause any other problems?

She has also been told by a Chinese friend, who changed to a NZ passport but continued to use her Chinese passport. That she was banned from entering China for 5 years as they "caught" her trying to do this when she tried to renew her Chinese passport. Is this true?

[cdn_in_bj]

I am moving to Hunan with my Chinese wife. But she now has a British passport so would this cause any other problems?

Did she give up her Chinese passport? If not, this could be a problem because China does not recognize dual citizenship.

Please refer to section entitled "6. LOCAL LAWS AND CUSTOMS" in the following:

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/dest/report-en.asp?country=55000

"According to the Consular Agreement between Canada and the People’s Republic of China, Chinese authorities should consider Canadian-Chinese dual nationals entering on a Canadian passport as a Canadian citizen. However, consular assistance has been denied to Chinese-Canadians even though they had entered on a Canadian passport. Canadian-Chinese dual nationals using Chinese travel documents to enter China, have and will be denied Canadian consular services.

It is important to note that Chinese authorities have and will refuse Canadian consular officials access to Canadians of Chinese origin who are detained in the People’s Republic of China."

I highly recommend that you inquire with the British embassy before you depart.

She has also been told by a Chinese friend, who changed to a NZ passport but continued to use her Chinese passport. That she was banned from entering China for 5 years as they "caught" her trying to do this when she tried to renew her Chinese passport. Is this true?

Yes I've heard similar stories, but what is even more scary is that Chinese immigration can detain and prevent people in her situation from leaving China.

[ms2002sss]

She still has her Chinese passport, so no she hasnt given it up, but as China dosent do dual nationality isnt her Chinese passport effectivley given up by default?

We were planning to use the Chinese passport going to china and the British passport going to England. But the warning of being banned from China for 5 years makes it not worth the risk.

Will I get a visa to live in China? If I apply saying I am living with my Chinese wife in her home town. Could they refuse saying my wife is British not Chinese?

2 adults and 2 toddlers travelling to HK each year to get a new Visa sounds expensive and a very large and unnecessary hassle

Is China recognising dual nationality on the horizion or is there some major cultural thing that makes the unlikely?

Thanks,

[nitropuppy]

I believe the same rules apply for all foreigners. But certain countries get favorable treatment. (I know that sounds like a contridiction but the rules are set in print then applied differently) British and American passport and visa rules seem to be synonomous at this point in time. ie; you will be required to leave the country.

As far as a dual citizen passport situation, the Chinese keep fairly meticulous records. If you attempt to cut corners, they'll catch you. Then you end up regretting it in numerous ways.

[cdn_in_bj]

She still has her Chinese passport, so no she hasnt given it up, but as China dosent do dual nationality isnt her Chinese passport effectivley given up by default?

No, what it means in this case is that the Chinese government will not recognize her British passport and still considers her to be a Chinese national. Again, I refer to the reference in my previous post:

Dual nationality is not recognized in China. Travellers should ensure that they are well informed regarding Chinese law as it relates to determination and loss of Chinese citizenship. Recognition of Canadian citizenship is not automatic.

We were planning to use the Chinese passport going to china and the British passport going to England.

I can tell you why this isn't going to work. Your wife getting into China using her Chinese passport might not be a problem. However, when you guys leave China you will have to go through exit procedures with Chinese immigration. If your wife tries to exit using her Chinese passport, they will check to see if it contains a visa for the UK. How will she explain to the immigration officer how she intends to enter the UK without a visa? On the otherhand, if she tries to exit using her British passport, they're not going to find record of her entry into China using that passport. And it probably won't contain a Chinese visa either. This is just not going to work.

I think she's going to have to enter and exit using her British passport in order to leave China with the least amount hassle.

Will I get a visa to live in China? If I apply saying I am living with my Chinese wife in her home town. Could they refuse saying my wife is British not Chinese?

Firstly, if your wife intends to visit China, she needs to figure out if she'd rather hold British or Chinese nationality, and go through the official procedures to revoke the unwanted one. I'm guessing she would want to keep her British citizenship; I can't see why she'd want to keep her Chinese citizenship if she intends to return to the UK.

Secondly, if she decides to give up her Chinese citizenship she is going to have to get a proper Chinese visa like the rest of you in order to enter China. I'm sorry, that's just how it is. But it should be very straightforward for all of you to get L visas for a short-term stay.

Lastly, I don't have first hand experience so I am just going by what I've heard from others. But this is something I would look into very carefully if I were you.

2 adults and 2 toddlers travelling to HK each year to get a new Visa sounds expensive and a very large and unnecessary hassle

One way to reduce or eliminate the trips to HK is for either you or your wife to find proper employment in China, and enter on a Z visa. The Z visa/working permit holder would be free to leave and re-enter China at will and would get the permit renewed once a year (provided that they remain employed). The rest of the family would get L visas, and I believe in this case they would be able to renew these from within China too.

Is China recognising dual nationality on the horizion or is there some major cultural thing that makes the unlikely?

I don't think it has to do with culture; there are other countries besides China which don't recognize dual nationality. In fact, I'd be interested in hearing some strong arguments as to why nations should recognize dual or even multiple nationality.

[adrianlondon]

Could she not use her Chinese passport to enter China, then go to the British Embassy and show her british passport (the Uk recognises dual nationality) and use that to get a UK visa?

Then she can leave China on her Chinese passport (and probably enter the UK on her British one as the queues are shorter).

Of course, this all relies on the British embassy giving a quick visa based on her having a British passport.