Korean learning resources for beginners

[rose~]

I was hoping to get some tips on resources from other people who are learning Korean

I have been using Declan's Korean Flashcards which I have found really useful. The only downside I find is that some of the downloadable wordlists are quite random, which I think slows down learning compared to wordlists arranged by theme. On the other hand, having the audio really helps, especially if you are not attending a Korean class:link

As for online resources, Sogang University's online course is well-designed:link.

Let's Learn Korean is also available to view on Youtube.com, though I haven't had much time to watch it yet. The course is also available from their own site for free so I think that's OK copyright-wise:link

Although these resources are all really great, I think I need something with more focus on grammar. I am finding memorizing individual words fairly easy, especially because as I speak Chinese and some Japanese already- perhaps others have found the same thing? Therefore it would be good to find something with more emphasis on sentence construction.

I am considering buying either Colloquial Korean or Teach Yourself Korean, so it would be great if anyone could make a recommendation.

[atitarev]

I haven't seen "Colloquial Korean" but I've got "Teach Yourself Korean", not bad but could be better, it's far from academic. I heard better feedback about "Integrated Korean"

Check this thread I started, which went off on a tangent:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/8239-teach-yourself-korean-can-anyone-check-the-spelling

I satisfied my linguistic curiosity and I am currently not learning Korean - focusing on Mandarin, keeping up Japanese and learning a bit of standard Arabic.

It's an interesting language and if you have some motivation, go for it!

Previous exposure to Japanese grammar might help - a lot of thing can be easily mapped.

A large portion of vocabulary is borrowed from Chinese, either directly or via Japanese, some directly form Japanese and English. If you're not using Korean texts with Chinese characters you may not recognise them, though.

[tsp_uk]

Most people I know either recommend "Integrated Korean" or "Elementary Korean". I've got Elementary Korean myself but sometimes it really does overload you with grammar but none the less it's a great book as it has a CD with it as well. Integrated Korean has got 8 books I think, while "Elementary Korean" has a following series called "Continuing Korean". I'm not sure about "Teach yourself Korean" because I read that it only using romanization which is not very good for learning Korean, since as well Korean hangul is so easy to read (but so many pronunciation rules as well!)

I would advise you to check this website http://korean.paperwindow.com/forum/ go to resources, and you might found what you need.

화이팅!

[atitarev]

'm not sure about "Teach yourself Korean" because I read that it only using romanization which is not very good for learning Korean, since as well Korean hangul is so easy to read (but so many pronunciation rules as well!)

It has both Hangul and romanisation for each text and vocabulary, sometimes they slip into just romanisation in the grammar notes but that's OK, IMHO.

[bhchao]

Try this site: http://www.interedu.go.kr/indexe.html

There is a pretest that tests you on pronunciation and grammar, as well as downloadable course materials in Chinese for learning Korean.

Barron's has an audio package with an emphasis on Korean grammar. http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Korean-Package-Compact-Packages/dp/0764178822/sr=8-1/qid=1164337564/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-0912336-5742321?ie=UTF8&s=books. This is the same program used by the U.S. State Department to train diplomats and foreign service officers.

[HashiriKata]

I am considering buying either Colloquial Korean or Teach Yourself Korean

As you've got some feedback about "Teach Yourself Korean", I should have a word about "Colloquial Korean" with my very limited experience of it.

Although not providing romanisation is a good idea in theory, I don't think it works out that way with Korean, especially with beginning Korean. I started Korean for the sole purpose of being able to read Korean accurately but due to the fact that Korean has so many rules for pronunciation change when the words are in combination, I need to see such changes at least reflected in the romanisation but you're not provided any help in this regard. When listening to the CDs that accompany the book, I often wish I could verify the changes I hear with some romanisation of the actual pronunciation (as a beginner, what you think you hear may not always be the same as what you actually hear!)

For the above reason, I soon sought alternatives and so, can't tell you how good the book is in other regards. For my purpose, "Teach yourself Korean" may have been a better choice (but I didn't buy it, because I already spent a reasonable amount on the "Colloquial Korean" set.)

[bhchao]

Although not providing romanisation is a good idea in theory, I don't think it works out that way with Korean, especially with beginning Korean. I started Korean for the sole purpose of being able to read Korean accurately but due to the fact that Korean has so many rules for pronunciation change when the words are in combination, I need to see such changes at least reflected in the romanisation but you're not provided any help in this regard.

Frankly speaking, Korean is not a language suited for romanisation. It's a messy matter trying to romanize Korean words. In many instances the words are pronounced quite differently from what they appear through romanization. For example, 한국 is romanized as 'hangook', but you don't hear the 'k' at all if you hear the actual pronunciation. Romanizing the word as 'hangoo' will make it even worse.

For someone who is starting to learn Korean for the very first time, I don't recommend learning the sounds of Hangul through the romanization illustrated in a textbook. It can mislead the learner and cause misunderstandings when trying to converse with a native Korean speaker. I think the best tools for first learning the sounds of the alphabet is through audio rather than looking at the romanization in a textbook without the audio. Or in a classroom setting with a native Korean instructor who asks you to repeat the sounds as they are pronouncing them. That way the instructor can tell whether you have the correct pronunication.

[HashiriKata]

Although not providing romanisation is a good idea in theory, I don't think it works out that way with Korean

In saying the above, I knew that someone would say what you've just said .

Personally, I'd rather decide for myself whether or not to rely on romanisation, instead of not being provided with a choice in the first place. My idle set of "Colloquial Korean" would bear witness to what I'm saying, and I'm not a newbie in language learning either.

[atitarev]

Bhchao, clipped ending consonants appear in Chinese dialects as well, at least in Cantonese but romanisation does help in the early stages. No romanisation is perfect but people should take into account how to read it, not in English but following the pronunciation rules of the language, like reading pinyin, for example.

[bhchao]

Eradicating romanisation is not something I would recommend, as I understand many foreigners find it useful when first learning a language. As an initial short-term tool for learning a new language, yes, it can be useful to get a general idea of how words would sound corresponding to the Latin alphabet. However in the long-term, I would say the disadvantages outweigh the advantages with continued reliance on romanisation.

Problems such as foreign accents when speaking Chinese or Korean could arise if you rely too much on romanisation. If you want to speak like a native without a foreign-sounding accent, it may be a better idea to learn the language using the method of instruction taught by the locals, like Zhuyin Fuhao in Taiwan. (did I just use romanisation there? )

[rose~]

Thanks for the help.

Could anyone tell me why the Korean to English version of Popjisyo doesn't work as well as Chinese to English or Japanese to English? It often seems to come up with a long list of obscure and apparently unconnected words... Is there any other pop-up dictionary/site for Korean?

[atitarev]

Bhchao, agree 100% that you can't use just romanisation but with Chinese learners are often stuck with it for quite some time - you need it at least to build new vocabulary and sometimes for checking if you're still using the right tone. I rely on dictionaries to give me the pronunication. Pinyin (or any phonetic guide) is essential in learning Chinese.

Zhuyin Fuhao is just another phonetic guide used in Taiwan as opposed to Hanyu Pinyin used in mainland China and all-over the world, although it's not in Roman letters, it is a phonetical representation. It has its own advantages/disadvantages, by no means perfect (which system is?). The one disadvantage is you have to learn on top of learning Chinese characters. It would be OK for me if it were the standard method for learning Chinese.

With Korean you can switch to just Hangul after practising enough with it and covering, understanding and memorising all possible sound changes. I don't think learning to read in Korean is too difficult, if you know all the letters and all the rules, you can always read any word.

[bhchao]

I agree with you on Korean. Since the hangul alphabet has 24 letters, similar in number to the Latin alphabet's 26, it is relatively easy to pronounce Korean words with no further help from romanization after you master the sounds and pronunciation order of each hangul letter.

I partially agree with you on Chinese. The complexity of the Chinese written language makes it extremely difficult to master, especially for a beginner, within a short time frame. Pinyin helps facilitate or speed up the learning pace for someone whose mother tongue is not Chinese.

If your goal is to learn the sounds, meaning, and tones of a large set of characters within a short time period, then pinyin serves your purpose. However one disadvantage of pinyin compared with Zhuyin Fuhao is mastering the pronunciation correctly without an "alien" accent. The one problem with Zhuyin Fuhao is it is tedious and time-consuming, which can turn off many foreigners trying to learn Mandarin. Yet some proponents of Zhuyin Fuhao say that if you are willing to put in the effort and time to learn it, you may have an edge in pronunciation versus someone who learns Mandarin via pinyin.

[onebir]

Barron's has an audio package with an emphasis on Korean grammar. http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Kore...e=UTF8&s=books. This is the same program used by the U.S. State Department to train diplomats and foreign service officers.

It's probably very good, but DON'T BUY it! You can get the second half for free here:fsilanguagecourses and the first half should go up pretty soon. You just have to register to download it.

(Incidentally, if H1 doesn't get uploaded soon, it might be worth posting your interest on the forum there - if you get together with a few other people and you could buy an original from the NTIS. Split 3 or 4 ways it would be comparable to Barrons, and the material could be uploaded for everyone to use for free)

The Defense Language Institute Headstart Course - often available quite cheaply at abebooks is probably worth a look too. (And i think all of these are original offprints from the Defense Language Institute, so i think if you get one it could be uploaded for free distribution online too)

[atitarev]

If your goal is to learn the sounds, meaning, and tones of a large set of characters within a short time period, then pinyin serves your purpose. However one disadvantage of pinyin compared with Zhuyin Fuhao is mastering the pronunciation correctly without an "alien" accent. The one problem with Zhuyin Fuhao is it is tedious and time-consuming, which can turn off many foreigners trying to learn Mandarin. Yet some proponents of Zhuyin Fuhao say that if you are willing to put in the effort and time to learn it, you may have an edge in pronunciation versus someone who learns Mandarin via pinyin.

Sorry, but this is very arguable. What helps to get rid of the alien accent if you use Zhuyin Fuhao vs Hanyu Pinyin?! I think it's a myth. I used Zhuyin Fuhao when reading some children's books with phonetic guides in Zhuyin Fuhao, published in Taiwan. I haven't mastered it to remember, if I review I will remember the symbols again but I don't think this system had any positive impact on my pronunciation. What matters is your own effort to listen and imitate the sounds. Roman script is used by a huge number of languages with various pronunciation, people approximate the sounds of the foreign language to their own at the beginning, this can't be helped. If they use any other script (non-Roman), they will still convert it to their own at early stages anyway.

In other words, I don't think any script affects pronunciation if you follow pronunciation and instructions and listen, it does affect the development of the language (the other way around is true as well), though. If a script doesn't convey certain sounds/combinations, they never appear in the language. Korean doesn't have letter F, so they don't pronounce it correctly- pakkeuseu - fax.

[bhchao]

What matters is your own effort to listen and imitate the sounds. Roman script is used by a huge number of languages with various pronunciation, people approximate the sounds of the foreign language to their own at the beginning, this can't be helped. If they use any other script (non-Roman), they will still convert it to their own at early stages anyway.

That is true in theory, but quite difficult in practicality. Few people can master pronunciation merely by listening and imitation, unless you have extensive one-on-one interaction with a native speaker who has very good pronunciation. I attended a classroom setting once in the US where a teacher from the BLCU asked the students to repeat words and phrases after her, and many students did not come even close to matching the instructor's pronunciation despite her repetitions.

You do have a valid point in listening and imitation as a way in gaining proficiency in pronunciation. I think once you reach adulthood and grew up speaking a non-tonal language like English, you begin to associate Chinese sounds with English letters and your Mandarin is perceived as sounding like a laowai speaking Mandarin.

Of course that can be overcome with constant listening and imitation, but few people can pull it off, unless you are a 天才 of course, or a Dashan.

In other words, I don't think any script affects pronunciation if you follow pronunciation and instructions and listen, it does affect the development of the language (the other way around is true as well), though.

Yes, there is probably no direct correlation between the script and a learner's pronunciation. There are foreigners who have become very fluent in Mandarin by learning pinyin. However I think the success rate is higher for someone who first learned pinyin, and then used it in conjunction with zhuyin fuhao later on. Both systems have its merits, and when combined together, the outcome can be quite formidable. Studies have shown that elementary school students in Taiwan drilled in zhuyin fuhao have higher phonological awareness than their counterparts who did not go through the process.

Approaching pinyin vs. zhuyin fuhao should resemble the approach towards simplified vs. traditional characters. In other words, both systems have their strengths, and learning both is a strong asset to have for a learner wishing to master pronunciation and reading.

Overall this was an interesting discussion. I enjoyed it.

[atitarev]

I enjoyed it Bhchao but I can't agree with you, it just doesn't make sense. You probably just love Zhuyin Fuhao Simply, there is no sound attached to symbols. It seems to me like propaganda from Taiwanese point of view - learn Bopomofo and your accent will be better.

If a person has no ability to pick up the correct sounds, then how does Zhuyin Fuhao make it easier?! It just adds to the complexity of learning - more symbols and their readings to learn. There was a discussion here about the flaws of pinyin, which I left.

How is "ㄊㄧㄢ" better than "tian" or "ㄋㄩ" better than "nü" to represent the same sounds?

[anonymoose]

How is "ㄊㄧㄢ" better than "tian" or "ㄋㄩ" better than "nü" to represent the same sounds?

I think whether or not it's 'better' is quite subjective in this case.

The advantage of zhuyin fuhao is not that it represents the sound better, but because it doesn't rely on symbols which are used in one's own language (assuming your own language uses the roman alphabet), there is less temptation to erroneously map the sounds of one's own language onto chinese words.

For people who are aware of this caveat, it may be that neither pinyin or zhuyin fuhua hold any advantage over the other in this respect. But for other learners who are maybe less used to foreign languages, or are less aware of the pitfalls, they may unintentionally map sounds represented by letters that they are familiar with onto chinese words where it is not appropriate.

This is quite clearly seen, for example when some northern Europeans speak english. Sometimes when words contain a 'j' it is pronounced as (the english) 'y'. This is because in their own languages (Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, Danish, German, Polish and probably others) 'j' is pronounced like the english 'y', so they erroneously apply the same pronunciation rules to english words. Of course not all northern European speakers of english speak like this - just like not all users of pinyin will fall into the same trap of misprouncing chinese, but with zhuyin fuhao at least there is less temptation to do so.

Now the fact that zhuyin fuhao requires the additional effort of having to learn another set of symbols is a different kettle of fish...

[atitarev]

I understand your point, Anonymoose but this will apply to people who are not trying to learn a language but trying to read it using the knowledge of their language. For learners though, they may mix up letters for a short time only. With any other non Roman script, the beginning process is the same - they have to learn how to read those letters using the letters of their own alphabet, so letter ㄊ will become a letter T in their mind, brnging whatever native accent.

I don't think that mixing up z (ts in German), v (f in German) and j (zh in French, kh in Spanish, y in many other languages) is a serious hurdle, as I said before, people who really want to learn won't make the same error ifthey are corrected, over and over again. I stronly believe that relearning a couple of letters is easier than learning a whole new alphabet.

I have nothing against zhuyin fuhao but it's rarely used in the resources I use, I only need it occasionally.

Let's drop this discussion, we digressed from the main topic, anyway.

[tsp_uk]

Hey, I know some of you are learning Korean and i saw this korean dictionary on ebay and was wondering what you guys think of it.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Korean-English-Electronic-Dictionary-Casio-EW-K500_W0QQitemZ180059422654QQihZ008QQcategoryZ94864QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Should I bid on it?