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Confused about certain stroke orders


Magnus

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:help Hi everyone!

Maybe it's not very important, though it's very strange with all these stroke order differences. I am getting more and more confused about all those stroke order differences and people/teachers in school telling me they use the right stroke order. For example some write 辶 with 3 strokes while others write it using 4 strokes. Some write 阝 using 2 strokes and some with 3 strokes...:roll::help The stroke order for 我 is also unclear to me, some write the dot as the last stroke while others don't. What's is the correct way for me to write (I am learning traditional characters) ?

According to this site 阝should be written using 3 strokes: http://www.edu.tw/EDU_WEB/EDU_MGT/MANDR/EDU6300001/allbook/bishuen/p182b.htm?open

And 我 like this: http://www.edu.tw/EDU_WEB/EDU_MGT/MANDR/EDU6300001/allbook/bishuen/p62a.htm?open (with the "pie3"-stroke as the final stroke)

Other stange things are how the radical 瓦 is written, 4 or 5 strokes? And as I have asked before; what's the correct standard form of 體 and 龍, should the 月 component in these characters be written like the meat-radical, ie. with those two dots in it?: http://www.edu.tw/EDU_WEB/EDU_MGT/MANDR/EDU6300001/allbook/bishuen/p206a.htm?open

Sorry if I am maybe taking this to serious...though I would be very happy if could get any help, thank you.:)

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Absolutely correct stroke order is important if you're looking through lists indexed by stroke order. Otherwise, a general sense is probably OK. Two or three strokes on 阝 won't make a huge difference so long as the shape of the element is correct. Some variation exists in details - like your 我 example - I met a calligrapher once who was evangelising for his "new improved stroke order" on some character element, for which he had a couple of pages of dense text written up to form a theoretical justification for flying in the face of tradition.

As for the moon vs. flesh radical form, what wasn't satisfactory about the answers in the previous thread?

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Hi, thank you all for helping me, it really made my day:D . This site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroke_%28Chinese_character%29 which Koneko posted has some really interesting information about stroke order (especially the part which describes the differences between "the three stroke order schools"). According to that article, 戈 should be written with the dot before the "pie3"-stroke.

The article claims that the stroke order of 戈 was changed at same time as the simplified characters were made official in 1956. The reason for this was that it should make it "easier" and more convient when writing horizontal texts. Earlier, when people wrote vertical columns of characters, it rather was more convenient to write the dot before the last "pie3"-stroke.

As for the moon vs. flesh radical form, what wasn't satisfactory about the answers in the previous thread?

I just wonder what is the correct and standard form of 體, 龍 etc? With the flesh radical or the moon radical and which one is considered to be right? Or are they sort of "unofficial" variant forms"?

Thanks everybody for your help, :D It's great to get help from such nice people as you:)

(Sorry about my English & if my questions are a bit "weird":wink:

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I just wonder what is the correct and standard form of 體, 龍 etc? With the flesh radical or the moon radical and which one is considered to be right? Or are they sort of "unofficial" variant forms"?
As for the moon vs. flesh radical form, what wasn't satisfactory about the answers in the previous thread?

You didn't seem to read the answers to your question, Magnus, which upset me no end, because I replied in the previous thread, which are the best you can get, and I don't know what to do now !!! :mrgreen:

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  • 2 weeks later...

The difference in stroke order comes out of all those different forms of Chinese writing, where there are 6 or 7: but mostly from a fusion of kaishu[standard script], xingshu[running script, a cross between kaishu and caoshu, precursor to caoshu] caoshu[grass script, aka cursive script]. Most stroke orders in kaishu are considered standard. the stroke orders in caoshu is different because there's no care for correct stoke order, the thing is to rush it through so no one could really understand it. because of this hurriedness, and unimportance, stroke order is mixed up, confusing the modern kaishu script writer. xingshu stroke order is mostly the same as kaishu. Stone rubbings usually use kaishu. Then there's guwen, ancient chinese from Shang dynasty onwards, there's lishu, which is clerical script, where in the same character, some strokes are very thin, while others are very thick. If I'm still confusing you, go to a search engine and type in these words: Etymology of Chinese script. Just to add to this confusion, the make up of most simplified characters is this: mix of the different scripts, then simplify the results. Have fun[learning the stroke orders]. There are many other forms of Chinese scripts created by famous calligraphers, who are mostly artists, poets, or scholar-officials, or even emperors. IMHO, the Sung emperor Huizong, has great "penmanship"

Japanese Kanji: katakana is based on kaishu, hiragana is based on caoshu, furigana is a smaller version of katakana. Korean Hanja follows kaishu. Vietnamese Chu-nom also follows kaishu. Japanese uses both simplified and traditional characters, while Hanja & Chu-Nom only uses traditional characters. Each aforementioned language has their own grammars in addition to Chinese grammars. Japanese uses both the meaning of Chinese characters, and the phonetic value at the time the chacracters were brought into Japan. Most Japanese borrowing would include Mandarin and /or Cantonese pronunciations of words, along with their native Japanese pronunciations. You can have one character, and up to ten pronunciations in Japanese for that same character depending on context!

Now you know why they call Japanese "the devil's tongue"? I'm sorry if you feel offended or think this doesn't belong: I'm just making a point by including this.

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