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natalie

成 after verbs

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natalie

大家好,

I have a problem understanding the idea of using 成 after verbs. I'd appreciate it if you give me a hand :)

For instance:

1) 大卫把上网想成是一件非常复杂的事情

1a) 上网被大卫想成是一件非常复杂的事情

** first, the translation: David sees the internet as a complicated thing.

Why can't it simply be:

大卫想上网是一件非常复杂的事情

** second, why is there a 是 ? I can't figure it out...

I can't understand the same thing about these phrases:

很多人把爱情当作是一件复杂的事情

爱情被很多人当作是一件复杂的事情

And last couple is one without 是... can anybody explain why?

这个孩子把这个字写成别的字了

这个字被这个孩子写成别的字了

謝謝你們!

周末快樂!

Natalie

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againstwind

Intractable questions...

After a verb, 成 indicates

1)success or achievement, its form is V.+ 成, and "得" or "不" can be added between them.

e.g.

我的论文终于写成了。

我们去得成以色列吗?

如果下雨,这次活动就办不成了。

2) "to become", and "得" or "不" usually can't be added between V. and 成. And there must be an objective after 成.

e.g.

我想把这篇小说改编成一部电影。

她的身材不错,可以被培养成一名模特。

Why can't it simply be:

大卫想上网是一件非常复杂的事情 ?

In fact, it's acceptable. Just remember to pause after 想, so it should be "大卫想,上网是一件非常复杂的事情". (David thinks that the internet is a complicated thing.)

Of course, it hears more native if you use "把字句".

second, why is there a 是?

And last couple is one without 是...

A simple way to understand it is to break up these sentences and check whether their backbones make sense.

e.g.

大卫把上网想成是一件非常复杂的事情

上网被大卫想成是一件非常复杂的事情。

上网是一件复杂的事情。 It makes sense.

很多人把爱情当作是一件复杂的事情

爱情被很多人当作是一件复杂的事情

爱情是一件复杂的事情。 It makes sense too.

If we add 是 after "写成"

这个孩子把这个字写成(是)别的字了。

这个字被这个孩子写成(是)别的字了。

这个字是别的字。 It doesn't make sense if you want to express "the kid wrote wrongly" in this context.

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natalie

很答謝你!

I think I'm beginning to understand,

but the matter hasn't been fully clarified in my brain yet, so:

According to what you wrote about , does it mean that we need to translate the sentence

"大卫把上网想成是一件非常复杂的事情。" like this:

David thinks the internet became a complicated thing ?

(I feel it's not the case... so I still need an explanation about 成's role here...)

and about the structure of the 2nd phrase:

很多人把爱情当作是一件复杂的事情

is it actually 很多人把爱情当作(愛情)是一件复杂的事情 ?

I might be really off track now...

but I hope there is still some hope left for me!

:)

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HashiriKata
second, why is there a 是?

And last couple is one without 是...

I'm afraid I have to disagree with againstwind's explanation regarding this. It's inconceivable that before deciding whether to add 是 in the sentence, one has to think in terms of another, different sentence...I think the truth is simpler and is closer to home:

A. Without 是: If what comes after the main verb is a straightforward observable fact, no need for 是:

这个孩子把这个字写成别的字了

这个字被这个孩子写成别的字了

B. With 是: If what comes after the main verb is a subjective judgement or opinion, 是 is added after the main verb:

大卫把上网想成一件非常复杂的事情

上网被大卫想成一件非常复杂的事情

很多人把爱情当作一件复杂的事情

爱情被很多人当作一件复杂的事情

The following are some more examples to illustrate my obsevation above:

A. Without 是 (Observable facts):

你能把这篇文章缩写成400字吗?

Could you compress that article down to 400 words?

水被加热时,可以变成水蒸汽。

Water can change into vapor when heated.

毛虫会变成蝴蝶。

Caterpillars will turn into butterflies.

咒语将青蛙和老鼠又变回成了人。

The magic spell changed the frogs and rats back into men.

(This is also an obsevable fact, albeit in the imaginary world :mrgreen: )

B. With 是 (Subjective judgements):

他把我说成傻瓜。

He made me out to be an idiot

他把自己说成专家.

He presented himself as an expert

他被看成不守规矩的人。

He's seen as unruly

金钱常常说成万恶之源.

Money is often said to be the root of all evils

警方将该死亡看成自杀

The police considered it a suicide

她生在伦敦, 但现在把巴黎看成她的家乡.

She was born in London, but she now looks on Paris as her home.

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natalie

Hello again,

HashiriKata- thank you for your explanation. Can you try to answer my other questions (I posted them right under your post)?

I'm still trying to understand 是...

for instance,

她生在伦敦, 但现在把巴黎看成是她的家乡.

Is it actually 她生在伦敦, 但现在把巴黎看成(巴黎)是她的家乡.

(as when we say 這個孩子是小王的 (孩子) - without writing 孩子 in the end)

and when it comes to subjective view... does 看成是 function as 看起來? (without the meaning of "to become")

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HashiriKata

Natalie, for some unknown reason your 2nd post was not shown when I wrote my reply concerning the presence/absence of 是, but I hope it answers your question in some way.

In your original post, you seemed to ask what 成 is doing when added to the verb, is this correct?

成 is a complement of result (like the 2nd element in 做完, 写好,猜错, 听懂, etc), it's added to show the result achieved by the verb in front of it:

写成, 看成, 说成, 想成, etc. The difference between these and the plain 写, 看, 说, 想, etc. is that:

(a) when you use 写, 看, 说, 想, etc. , you simply "write/ see/ say/ think, etc." something, whereas

(B) when you use 写成, 看成, 说成, 想成, etc., you turn something into something else, whether physically or mentally, through your act of "writing/ seeing/ saying/ thinking, etc."

I think you can see this effect of the addition of 成 through the examples in my previous post.

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HashiriKata
Is it actually 她生在伦敦, 但现在把巴黎看成(巴黎)是她的家乡.

(as when we say 這個孩子是小王的 (孩子) - without writing 孩子 in the end)

I don't think so. As you can see by inserting the bracketed element, 這個孩子是小王的 孩子 is fine but not 她生在伦敦, 但现在把巴黎看成巴黎是她的家乡.
and when it comes to subjective view... does 看成是 function as 看起來?
No, structurally they are two different things (and you can also see the difference in the translation of the two phrases. With 看成是 comes a definite view (even if a subjective one), whereas 看起來 simply means "seem/ appear".)

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