English Schools to AVOID!!!!

[ex_esler]

Hey all,

I worked as an English Teacher in Chongqing China for 8 months. I was a co-op student on a work term with 7 other students. We came to China with high hopes of having an enriched cultural and learning experience but we were BRUTALLY exploited and abused by the company we went to work for. And the worst part was that despite the fact that the company is based in Canada (our home country) and we signed the contracts while in Canada, the Canadian Consulate couldn't help us, our home Universities couldn't help us, and the Chinese labour board was completely useless. Over half of us wound up breaking the contracts and leaving for home, despite an IMMENSE loss of money. We were very angry, frustrated and disappointed.

We were further frustrated to learn that students before us and AFTER us have had the same problems and nothing has been done! So we're trying to spread the word that it is important to READ the contract fully before you go (because though they will break it willy nilly, they hold you to it WITH NO EXCEPTIONS). Also, research the company you're going with! Some have better reputations than others!

In conclusion, be smart about it. Don't let your excitement blind you to the fact that there are people who are willing to abuse and exploit the naive and trusting nature of students and young people who want to experience a foreign country. Here is an article that one of the other co-op students I worked with wrote about our situation. And finally, the company I worked for was Penergy Newstart English school, and I would recommend avoiding them at all costs!

Thanks and good luck!

http://www.peak.sfu.ca/the-peak/2006-1/issue2/lasrword.html

PS: Feel free to share other schools that you know have a bad reputation, and even maybe some that are GOOD to work for!

[flameproof]

so what are you then? Teacher or student? You use both terms...

I am not in that business, but i think a good advise could be to locate and call some teachers there before you sign the contract and go.

Wasn't there a western teacher guy in GZ last year that either got killed or did suicide because of his school?

Bingo! Found it! His name was Darren Russell and it was 2005:

http://www.whiterabbitsmom.org/

http://www.bloggernews.net/2006/09/american-teacher-in-china-unquiet.html

[trevelyan]

What are the exact details? A lot of schools play liberally with their contractual terms with foreigners. My impression is that a lot of the reason for this is structural and policy related - schools are still not permitted to be wholly foreign owned but must be joint ventures involving somewhat corrupt Chinese partners. It also doesn't make sense for a lot of these places to go through the hassle of arranging Z-visas, etc. until they know their teachers will stick around for the long term. The fault for this is really the inane Chinese visa regulatory framework.

The worse you should end up with is a loss of contractually agreed-upon airfare home. Possibly a company refusal to sign a "release" for visa purposes if you get a visa and then leave the company before your contract expires. That just requires a trip to Hong Kong before you can get a new work visa with a different firm.

A lot of people have problems with these sorts of companies. But they also tend to be new to China and don't necessarily have a lot of perspective on how things actually work. This isn't to defend the morals of the companies lying to people (if you signed a contract in Canada you should really take legal recourse in Canada since Canadian law WILL apply in that case). But there are reasons that these problems are systemic. I know a couple of cases where people have come to China for teaching work, ended up unsatisfied and left positions leaving their schools out in the lurch. Given the difficulty of arranging visas, I sort of understand why schools avoid giving them out in the short term. So unless you want to be specific about the contractual terms and the school's violations of them with regards to your specific case, it will be difficult for people to form an opinion of whether the school is actually operating in bad faith.

That being said, I'm happy to make this thread more googleable for future potential employees. So flame away about "Penergy Newstart English".

[roddy]

For a warning post like this to be credible, you really need to be giving names, dates, places and details of exactly what happened. BRUTALLY exploited and abused means what exactly? How much was your immense loss of money?

There are people out there who will kick and scream because they have 8am starts or their salary was a bit late. To be honest I no longer give 'avoid this school' warnings much credibility unless some decent reasons are given.

Edit: Actually see now a lot of that is in your link - I'd thought that was just a signature type thing. Hey ho . . .

That said, I'm curious as to what actually started the problems. You mention unpaid overtime and poor living conditions. What happened exactly?

[flameproof]

For a warning post like this to be credible,

I retract and agree. You would have to be more specific.

I guess it's often new teachers that fall into that trap. Certainly those with little or non China experience.

I can imagine that the term "good living condition" GREATLY differs between a Chinese person and any westerner. What you (and probably I) would see as a 'pig hole' can be 'nice' to a Chinese.

By what a person gets upset can also greatly differ. I have people in China that complain all the time about everything while staying in a 5-star hotel. Often the negative attitude is overwhelming the person, driving them into a downward spiral of negativity.

I believe that many of those teachers are quite young and some are idealistic. They want to do a good job, salary ain't important at all. They want to really help. And naturally they expect sympathy from their hosts. But those schools run a tough business and it's just and only about money. They don't care about students, and they care only about teachers as long as money comes in.

Another point, "some" overtime is very often "expected" (it's written often in the contract that way). "Some" is not a word I would accept in a contract.

I would advise teachers tobe to have a less positive attitude and watch out for traps, as with any other potential employment. But more so in China. And always have a plan B.

[roddy]

Agreed. I'm well aware that a lot of the people running English schools in China are untrustworthy, mendacious moneygrabbing types, but at the same time a significant number of the first-time teachers coming over are in their first job, away from home for the first time and have unrealistic expectations (where are all the paddy fields?) and a tendency to blow small problems out of all proportion due to spending a lot of their free time with the very people they work with talking about nothing but work.

[magores]

I'm not saying that this is the case in this posters situation, but one problem I see is that fresh-out-of-college people sometimes don't realize how much time is involved in being a teacher. Especially those people that didn't actually study to be a teacher.

People see a job ad or contract that says "20 hours per week teaching". And, they think. "Cool! I only have to work 20 hours a week."

This is so far from the truth, it's laughable.

Each hour in class means:

-15 minutes before class getting ready (Setting up props/materials/tape recorder/etc)

-15 minutes after class finishing up (Cleaning up after yourself, getting your files in order)

-30 minutes planning the lesson (more if you are newer at the job and/or if its an "involved" topic)

Your 20 hours per week teaching job, just became 40+ hours.

Plus, people sometimes don't take into consideration commute time. A Beijing bus takes an hour to get anywhere, no matter how near or far the destination is. And you have to stand the whole way.

People coming to China to teach simply need to be realistic.

It's not college anymore. It's a Job (with a capital J). If you don't treat your job seriously, then you are doing yourself, and your students, a disfavor.

...

Having said all that, I admit I got a little lucky when I found my job in China. But, I think I made a little of luck the myself.

--I taught in the US, so I knew the job entailed

--I've been out of college for a few years, so I know what the real working world is like. And trust me. There are worse work environments. (Project Manager for web-based software. Trust me, this is worse than being a public toilet cleaner in Beijing.)

--My Chinese bosses are ex-teachers (now administrators), so they know what the job actually entails

...

/Rant over

//Take it for what it's worth

[Rincewind]

A huge number of foreign teachers seem to have problems while they are here. They complain about things all the time. So much so that I haven't spoken to another foreigner since the May holidays. It just gets so depressing listening to everything that is bad. Very few seem to be able to look at what is good.

Sure there are some bad schools but I've had bad employers back home too.

[feebie]

Yeah It would be great if people could post up the names of schools that they have had positive experiences with and negative experiences

Of course positive/negative experience depends on your expectations etc

However, I am sure there is a lot of exploitation out there - I don't believe it is just peoples unrealistic expectations

Before I started working in China I did a lot of research.

I asked the school a lot of questions.

I also got the email addresses of some of the past teachers and asked them

lots of questions. When I arrived I knew some of the negative points of my position but

had decided the positives outweighed the negative. I had already been assured that my employers were honest and stuck by the contract.

(although part of my situation is pure luck - because i guess there is ways to fake a good reputation)

I did a lot of research on a website called English School Watch.

This site was great stopped me from applying for many schools with a bad reputation.

Unfortunately this website is not working at the moment.

Please list schools that you found honest and okay.

Of course maybe you don't like teaching - don't list that

List stuff like "they did not pay me on time" (or at all)

(the original poster puts more details of the exploitation on the link on her post)

In the past I have worked for the

Haidian Shang Li Foreign Language School, Beijing

They did everything by the book.

No problems.

If other people could name schools they recommend that would be great

Even if you did apply to work at Shang Li it is still good to ask a lot of questions because as said previously - expectations differ