newyorkeric Posted July 19, 2007 at 01:36 AM Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 at 01:36 AM People say pinyin c sounds like English ts. I can't hear the s. Is this normal for a beginner? How do you pronounce c if you can't hear it correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gougou Posted July 19, 2007 at 01:42 AM Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 at 01:42 AM So you are saying that pinyin ca and pinyin ta sound the same to you? Did you listen to them in isolation yet? Try this table for recordings of all pinyin syllables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newyorkeric Posted July 19, 2007 at 01:49 AM Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 at 01:49 AM Thanks, I can hear it a little bit on that page. But I can't hear it at all here http://www.hello-han.com/ch-education/yinjieku/hanziyinjieku-en.php. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gougou Posted July 19, 2007 at 02:15 AM Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 at 02:15 AM Not your problem then, I can't hear it either. It is much more obvious in real life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaocai Posted July 19, 2007 at 07:30 AM Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 at 07:30 AM I think you could hear it more clearly by using earphones, but the recording itself also is a bit muffled. The table in gougou's post is much better in terms of clarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newyorkeric Posted July 19, 2007 at 02:27 PM Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 at 02:27 PM Do some people pronounce the s very lightly? I have had problems hearing the s clearly on the FSI tapes as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wangyi Posted July 20, 2007 at 08:39 AM Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 at 08:39 AM in chinese pinyin we generally pronounce it like " ts" in the end of english word~ practise it a couple of days you will grasp it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinlearner83 Posted July 20, 2007 at 10:29 PM Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 at 10:29 PM The Hello Han sounds are a little *. I'm not sure how to describe it. The 'c' isn't particularly clear. Do you mean the actual 's' as in the pinyin 's' or just the general sound (such as "sa" and "xiao")? The "xi" can definitely be rather faint and 's'-like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newyorkeric Posted July 21, 2007 at 01:08 AM Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 at 01:08 AM chinlearner83, I mean the s in the ts sound of pinyin c, which I often don't hear. Sometimes I can't even hear the s part when my tutor pronouces c. I thought that the s part may not always be clearly annunciated by native speakers . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.stinky Posted July 21, 2007 at 05:36 AM Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 at 05:36 AM which native speakers, and where is your tutor from? pronunciation varies widely. (ever bought a cuppa 'kwawfee' in new england, or a quart of 'motuh awl' in the south?) down south here, many speakers drop the 't' sound from the 'ts.' can be very confusing, as they also often drop the 'g' from 'ng' word endings, as well as the 'h' from 'sh.' the result is that san, can, and shan may all be pronounced as 'san.' from my former guangxi girlfriend..... shenme shihou shangke? -> senme sihou sanke? shi bu shi? -> si b'si? shanghai -> sanhai canting -> santin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdn_in_bj Posted July 21, 2007 at 11:36 AM Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 at 11:36 AM from my former guangxi girlfriend.....shenme shihou shangke? -> senme sihou sanke? Just curious, how would she say 四, 十 and 是? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.stinky Posted July 21, 2007 at 11:47 AM Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 at 11:47 AM the only difference between four and ten was the tone...si dian vs. si dian. always had to confirm dates and times at least twice. four = si(4) ten = si(2) is = si(4) to be or not to be: si(4) b' si(4) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newyorkeric Posted July 21, 2007 at 01:55 PM Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 at 01:55 PM mr. stinky, My tutor grew up 4 hours outside of Beijing, don't know where precisely. He went to university in Wuhan. Maybe it is a regional thing although sometimes I hear him pronounce it clearly and othertimes not at all. Ugh, this is a hard language to learn! No pain, no gain I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinlearner83 Posted July 21, 2007 at 10:34 PM Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 at 10:34 PM Oh, no wonder you can't hear the 's'. Although 'ts' represents the sound, I don't think it sounds much like an 's'. I also know people who don't differentiate between 四 and 十 except for the tone (and not so much the tone). Amazing how after the first time or so it doesn't cause any difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdn_in_bj Posted July 23, 2007 at 03:07 AM Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 at 03:07 AM the only difference between four and ten was the tone...si dian vs. si dian. always had to confirm dates and times at least twice. I had the same problem when I got here. Which was promptly pointed out and corrected by the friendly locals. Same with pronouncing 吃 (chi) as 'ci'. Since one of my favourite activities here is to 吃饭, this was also quickly corrected as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZero Posted July 23, 2007 at 05:29 PM Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 at 05:29 PM The 四 十 problem caused a significant little dustup for me once in Jiangsu Province where my wife is from. I was with an American friend who didn't speak much Chinese and he wanted to get his shoes shined by a street vendor. I asked the vendor how much, and I thought she said 4 RMB. Later when it came time to pay, it became apparent that she actually wanted him to pay 10 RMB. My wife's aunt, always ready to engage in battle with street vendors over prices (as much for sport as anything, I think), intervened and quite an argument ensued, with some onlookers getting involved as well. My friend and I kind of sneaked off in the middle of the battle. I'm not sure what the final price ended up being. Incidentally, when it comes to 4 and 10, the distinction is not always crystal clear to the Chinese themselves in that part of the country. I have heard people on many occasions repeating to make sure they heard right, or asking for clarification. They often make hand signals when naming prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinlearner83 Posted July 23, 2007 at 10:04 PM Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 at 10:04 PM newyorkeric, I was referring to the 's' in 'ts'. I don't think it sounds like much of an 's' at all. It's like a 't' an 's' and puff of air all together. I think that 'ce' and 'ci' may be the clearest versions of the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newyorkeric Posted July 24, 2007 at 12:18 AM Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 at 12:18 AM It's like a 't' an 's' and puff of air all together. This is a nice description. I think Americans know how to make this sound naturally. When someone is showing disagreement by pretending to spit, if they make the sound pa-too-y (ok, obviously you have to use your imagination here), the too sound is similar to c. At least that's how I taught myself to pronounce it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heifeng Posted July 24, 2007 at 05:30 AM Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 at 05:30 AM If I may be a lil' un 'PC'...the initial 'c' is clearest in the word 操, especially when people say it in a very exagerated way. (plus the ao final is a bit longer, ci, ce, is a bit shorter and people will just kinda muffle the whole word more when they say it) If you get a chance to visit a wangba or pool hall in China (only for the purpose free tutoring for a few hours of course, and I'm guessing most likely in the north...otherwise you may end up studying the r in 日 pronunciation more which is still a tricky sound for a beginner anyway), you should be quite clear on the c sound..and then you can move to the other c combinations... Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinlearner83 Posted July 24, 2007 at 10:16 PM Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 at 10:16 PM Good comment. I chose "ci" because it's really just like pronouncing an extended 'c'. I hadn't really thought of the possible difficulty in distinguishing between 'ce' and 'ci' when I suggested those two together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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