Tonal vowels for a newbie

[Dutch]

Hello forumites ,

This place looks a fascinating and useful resource.

I'm going on a short vacation to Beijing with a handful of phrasebooks I want to use there. The trouble is, I don't get the explanations about how the vowels really sound like with all these accents. I wonder if there's an online resource that has a few samples recorded. I have a fairly good musical hearing so I believe I could use them to get the idea.

Next, if I confuse the tones (pronouncing them all as neutral, for example), can Beijingers still get the idea?

[BFC_Peter]

Try this site: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/chinese/real_chinese/

It has some help on pronunciation, and quite a few useful words and phrases for the beginner.

[JoH]

Try this one too. They have loads of sound files of single tones and tone combinations.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~chinese/pinyin/

Just listen repeatedly to as many examples as possible - you will never guess the pronunciation accurately just from reading the phrasebooks. Although if the phrase books have tapes with them you should try to mimic the sound of the whole sentence - you'll be more easily understood if you try to speak at something like a normal speed, rather than pronouncing each syllable separately.

If you are musical, that will be a big help I think. I am tone deaf personally ...

[xuechengfeng]

i don't know if the people of beijing will get the idea or not if you speak in all neutral tone, possibly, but it would probably be a strain.

for example, in my one book alone there is about 10 different versions of the word "shi" with all different tones.

i'd listen to the tapes like the guys said.

if this is ne help.. this is how my course teaches in words..

zhōng = is almost like a high pitched singing tone.. raise ur eyebrows and voice when u say this..

rén = make your voice start normal, and carry it upwards

nǐ = go low and bring it back to normal.. it's almost like a stutter/pause to me..

zàijiàn = this would be said fastly, sharply downwards.

i don't know if u can pick up anything from that, but good luck.

[shibo77]

zhōng I'm raising my eyebrows.... erghhhhh

What a book!

- Shibo

[xuechengfeng]

lol well maybe it's cuz i'm conditioned now, but i have a heard time speaking tone 1 without my eyebrows raised

[Dutch]

Whoa! Great info, thanks everyone.

One more question: do the consonants really resemble Russian ones or is it just my first impression ;) ? Also, while we're on it (a little offtopic), can be Russian fluency of any use in Beijing?

[Quest]

can be Russian proficiency of any use in Beijing?

You can talk to Jiang Zemin in Russian.

[Dutch]

You can talk to Jiang Zemin in Russian.

LOL. Got the idea. But I guess that means that some of the elder people speak it, too... 1 of 1,000 ?

[Quest]

Well back in the days, there was only one country Chinese students would go to for education. I guess those who went, probably very few, knew at least a little bit of Russian.

Russian is not very useful in Beijing, and you probably won't come across people who speak it, unless you actively try to seek them out.

[Dutch]

Ah well doesn't really matter. Just playing with the idea.

Those pronunciation guides are great though .

[JoH]

Xuechengfeng - I wish teachers wouldn't do that kind of thing. I can't say a third tone without my head bobbing up and down.

[shibo77]

If you pay a visit to the Old City: East City District, there are about a few hundred, or thousand Russians living there. In the morning I go there and haggle prices for a cabbage in Russian, and they haggle back in Chinese, it's great! You can see Orthodox churches as well. But there are more if you travel to the Northeast.

- Shibo добро пожаловать к Peking, hoop u een goede reis hebt!

[xuechengfeng]

joh.. not necessarily bobbing ur head up and down, merely showing eyebrow expression with a higher tone, just like when people sing. i've never seen anyone say it's a distraction, and it helps some perfect the tone.. so to each his own.

[Dutch]

If you pay a visit to the Old City: East City District' date=' there are about a few hundred, or thousand Russians living there. In the morning I go there and haggle prices for a cabbage in Russian, and they haggle back in Chinese, it's great! You can see Orthodox churches as well. But there are more if you travel to the Northeast.

- Shibo добро пожаловать к Peking, hoop u een goede reis hebt![/quote']Wow! That's impressive, thanks .

Checked out the recorded samples. I believe the editors of Fodor's and Lonely Planet really must do something about their hearing. Is it possible to pronounce "xie-xie" (sorry, no accents) as "shay-shay" ? They must be deaf.

Oh! One more thing (sorry for asking too many questions). How do numbers (1, 2, 3, 4) correlate with the tonals? Who is who?

[ala]

I pronounce it as shay-shay. or closer to shey-shey. it's not standard, but everyone understands me just fine.

[Dutch]

Hmm... That's a little confusing. Is it dialect thing, or sounds similar to the standard for the Chinese?

[kentsuarez]

The best way is to try to find a native speaker near you who can help you a little with the tones; if you can't find one, you can easily find help upon arrival, as there are tons of Chinese who are very friendly and eager to help. When the hotel staff aren't busy, they're often eager to help, too, especially the ones in boring posts where they guard an empty hallway for hours. And you never know, you might end up marrying him/her -- that's how my parents met! (in Mex. City)

[ala]

Hmm... That's a little confusing. Is it dialect thing, or sounds similar to the standard for the Chinese?

Not everyone pronounce Mandarin like the dictionary pinyin. Afterall, language is alive, and pinyin is but a means to represent the sounds (the Standard) in a user friendly manner. Like how many people actually know that there's a glottal stop final in syllables with Tone 3? Northerners (Beijing) typically pronounce the "w" as a v-ish (though not an English v) sound, etc. I pronounce xiexie as sheyshey, because I had a lot of trouble pronouncing the pinyin x in grade school, and even though I know how to pronounce it now, I have no motive to change how I speak because I can still be understood. And other people do it too.

[zh-laoshi]

For some help on tones with sound files (mp3 format), go to http://www.speakuplanguages.com/Chinese/index.htm