3G Phone Service in China?

[Shadowdh]

Cheers Roddy... will look forward to giving it a whirl when I am in Beijing from this weekend... take care mate...

[roddy]

What service do you get down there? This makes it sound like you should get EDGE already.

[Shadowdh]

Hmmm I get the G now and then but not the E (which indicates edge, at least in the UK it does)... maybe in Hankou its easier to get... will check when I am there this Friday, if I remember, its farewell drinks time so may get foggy...

[gougou]

According to this report, some cities have HSDPA coverage already, which my phone (N82) claims to support. I tried it just now, still connected through EDGE only. Anybody ideas why? Wrong phone? Wrong location? Wrong time?

[roddy]

Doesn't say they've turned it on though . . .

They maybe need approval before they can actually start providing the 3G services - offering HSDPA now would basically put the nail in the coffin for TD-SCDMA, except perhaps as a 'poor man's 3G' - the Xiaolingtong of the 3G era if you like.

Doing the upgrades now will mean they can do their own testing and running in, and be ready to go when they get the go ahead.

Also, where was your phone bought? If it's a domestic version, double check it has the HSDPA support - it may have been disabled / not installed.

[cdn_in_bj]

Even if they did have it open for public access, I'd think you'd need to get a new SIM card.

Interesting wording they used in that article (emphasis mine):

the company has fully upgraded its network from TD-SDCMA to HSDPA in ten cities

[gougou]

The phone should be fine, it's a 行货, not sure about the SIM card though. And obviously about whether it's turned on yet.

[roddy]

So what's the current state of play in Beijing? Anyone actually getting any kind of 3G service? I just had a quick scout around the Beijing Mobile site, and didn't see reference to anything beyond GPRS. Perhaps we'll have full 3G service in time for the Olympi . . oh.

[gato]

I think the report is referring a TD-SCDMA version of HSDPA (i.e. a high-speed TD-SCDMA). See articles below:

http://news.ccidnet.com/art/1032/20081103/1605359_1.html

李进良：TD-HSDPA建网需加速

全国十城市TD已全面完成HSDPA升级，中移动如何推进TD二期建网？

http://news.ccidnet.com/art/3237/20080619/1479135_1.html

移动推进TD网向HSDPA升级 已有4城市完成 发布时间：2008.06.19 15:27 来源：新快报 作者：新快报

“目前十个城市的TD-SCDMA网络应该将在月底前完成HSDPA的升级工作。”在上周传出TD将在8城市升级至3.5G后，TD产业联盟秘书长杨骅前日对媒体透露，中国移动等运营商正在大力推进北京、上海、广州等10个城市的TD-SCDMA试验网向速度更快的3.5G技术HSDPA方面升级和市场化进程。目前由三个运营商负责的10个TD试商用城市中，已经有4个确认完成了升级。

[imron]

China Mobile is still running commercial trials of TD-SCDMA, and the trials have now been expanded to 28 cities although no full license has been given yet. WCDMA and CDMA2000 EVDO licenses (expected to go to Unicom and China Telecom respectively) haven't been awarded yet either, although those two operators are busy making the appropriate preparations. China Telecom says it will be ready to switch on 3G as soon as it receives a license as it basically only requires a software upgrade.

So, if you want 3G, TD-SCDMA (or TD-HSDPA) is basically all that's available, and it's apparently beset by problems with crappy handsets and crappy call quality.

[peekay]

Update: "China will issue third-generation mobile phone licenses as early as this month and expects companies to spend 200 billion yuan ($30 billion) on installing equipment, the industry minister said Friday":

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081212/ap_on_bi_ge/as_china_telecoms

[ipsi()]

China Unicom looks like it got the best deal, having received the WCDMA license. China Telecom got the short end of the stick with the CDMA 2000 license.

I'm not keen on the homegrown TD-SCDMA standard - it'll make it impossible for people to use their phones outside of China, and it's likely to be of poorer quality than WCDMA as that's been pretty heavily tested across the world. But that's just me.

It also looks like China Unicom will have an effective monopoly on foreigners with 3G devices. Unless you live in China or spend a lot of time there, there's not much point in buying a TD-SCDMA device, and CDMA-2000 isn't exactly popular across the rest of the world, as far as I'm aware. I also don't see people putting a lot of effort into English translations for their TD-SCDMA devices - if they can't be used (and thus effectively can't be sold) outside of China, what's the point?

Maybe it will prove to be fantastic, with lots of awesome devices. I doubt that, but it could happen.

[roddy]

While it's got to happen eventually, 3G licenses are now firmly in the 'believe it when I see it' category for me. Personally I don't really need anything faster than EDGE anyway, so I'm not that bothered.

[imron]

China Telecom got the short end of the stick with the CDMA 2000 license.

Yes and no. They got the easiest 3G to rollout as it's essentially only a software upgrade compared to the others which require the rollout of new hardware. So they'll probably be up and running faster and at a smaller cost than other carriers.

I'm not keen on the homegrown TD-SCDMA standard - it'll make it impossible for people to use their phones outside of China, and it's likely to be of poorer quality than WCDMA

Not just likely, but is. It's had pretty awful reviews from users during testing. Over 80% of 'free test users' (i.e. tens of thousands of users who have been given free handsets and 800 RMB of credit a month) are unhappy with the quality of not just the calls but also the handsets. By the time the technology is mature enough, it'll be ready for 4G and LTE stuff anyway, which China Mobile says it reckons it could have going by 2010. As for using the phones in other countries, I think you'll find a lot of handsets will be dual-mode GSM/TD-SCDMA anyway, so that the phone can access regular GSM networks when 3G is not available. China Mobile has said recently that with 3G they're going to focus more on data for TD-SCDMA, and voice on GSM. They're also favouring dual-mode GSM/TD-SCDMA phones for handset subsidies.

if they can't be used (and thus effectively can't be sold) outside of China, what's the point

Edit: Just realised you were talking about the English translations here rather than the devices, so most of my next comment doesn't apply.

China probably has a large enough domestic market for mobile phones that if TD-SCDMA was successful locally they wouldn't need to care too much about the rest of the world. Plus, I think you'll also see them pushing it in developing countries where they already have good relations with local telecom operators, and those telecom operators are not wealthy enough to purchase other technology.

The real point however is not to be a commercial success (at least not with 3G) but rather to develop their own technology and reduce reliance on foreign patents and therefore not have to pay royalties on all equipment and phones manufactured/sold, which totals in the billions every year. Chinese 3G might suck, but 4G will be better, and by the time they get to 5G they'll be much better at things. Personally, I think with the cost of getting to that point, they would have just been better off paying the royalties and not being lumped with a dud network, but then it's also seen as a national interest/security issue - often you'll hear comments like: but what if foreign countries decided not to license the technology to us? Which probably doesn't have high probability of happening, but who knows what the future holds and Chinese leaders probably remember when various sanctions were placed on selling stuff to China after the events of 1989.

Edited December 16, 2008 at 07:27 AM by imron

[roddy]

Yep - I think virtually all TD-SCDMA handsets also work on the GSM network, which basically shows how much confidence there is in TD-SCDMA at the moment. Perhaps as it becomes more widespread you'll get more TD-SCDMA only phones.

[imron]

And in related news, 20% of procured TD-SCDMA handsets are lying idle in a warehouse, with a large portion containing quality issues that makes them unmarketable. Link (in Chinese). Money quote:

此前中国移动已集采了近30万台TD-SCDMA终端，目前仍然有1/5左右的产品在库房闲置，这其中大部分存在质量问题，难以推向市场

[roddy]

Considering some of the rubbish that does make the market, you've got to wonder what kind of quality issues mean they can't even be put on the shelves. Probably infected with bird flu.

[peekay]

More news:

"BEIJING, Dec 31 (Reuters) - China's state council, or cabinet, said on Wednesday it had approved the issuance of long-awaited licences for next generation (3G) mobile networks, opening the door to $41 billion in spending for equipment."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTelecomNews/idUKPEK17947220081231?pageNumber=1

Looks like there is great pressure to get this (finally) going as part of China's economic stimulus plan.

I wonder which 3G frequency China Unicom will use for its WCDMA implementation? I'm guessing 2100 MHz??

[imron]

Note however that the licenses still haven't been issued. All the State Council has done is given permission for the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology to issue them when it decides is appropriate. It'll be interesting to see how soon it does that, and whether it issues them all at the same time, or whether it decides to give the home-grown TD-SCDMA a little bit more of a headstart (as if 4 years wasn't enough already).

[peekay]

Done deal, MIIT awarded the 3G licenses simultaneously:

http://www.cellular-news.com/story/35388.php

China Unicom to launch WCDMA service by May 17:

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2130350/