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tetsuo500

Switching from simplified to traditional

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tetsuo500

I'm going to Taiwan. I've decided to start learning traditional script. I guess I know around 800 simplified characters. I never learnt all of the radicals from scratch.

I was about to just start learning the simplified words I know in traditional script..... but then I thought it would probably be wiser to start off learning all of the radicals and their proper names.

Good idea?

Can anyone share any advice?

What's up with Taiwan not using pinyin?

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pazu

I have no experience of switching from Simp to Trad script, just the vice versa. I learnt to write in Simp Chinese (because the books published by mainland China are much cheaper) when I was 15. I just bought a book with a full list of all 繁簡字表, then I highlighted those really different one (most are indeed very similar), and practiced them.

I think it shouldn't be difficult to switch from Simp to Trad because if you learn how to write 金, you can write many Trad characters already.

钠 = 鈉

钉 = 釘

etc.

So as you have said, learning some common radicals help you to learn the Trad script.

Some characters worths special attention are:

旧 = 舊

卫 = 衛

etc.

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Shi Rui'en

I don't know about going from Simplified to Traditional, but the way I went from Traditional to Simplified was to get a book that had articles written in both sets and then read the simplified version, glancing at the traditional one when I had problems figuing out what a character was. I also wrote out the articles then in simplified. You could try the same only vice versa.

Ryan

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pazu

And there's something you should keep in mind, because sometimes there're more than one Trad Chinese characters to match that of Trad, so you have to be careful.

edited: Trad should be "simp". sorry~

A common mistake in China now, many salons used the word 發 to substitute 发, which is wrong, it should be "髮" if it means hair.

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Shi Rui'en

"because sometimes there're more than one Trad Chinese characters to match that of Trad, so you have to be careful. "

I think you have that backwards. Sometimes there are more than one simplified character to match that of a traditional character? Is that what you meant to say? :conf

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Ian_Lee

I think those words that are drastically different between the traditional and simplified scripts will not pose big problems to you because you will be extremely careful towards them.

Only those words that have slight or minor differences will bother you.

For example the "Ao" in "Aomen" (Macau) have 15 strokes in the simplified script but 16 strokes in the traditional script.

There is a big chance that you will skip such negligible difference.

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pazu
I think you have that backwards. Sometimes there are more than one simplified character to match that of a traditional character? Is that what you meant to say?

No.

I think in most cases there're more Trad character to match one Simpl.

e.g.

干 (simp) = 天干, 幹掉, 牛肉乾 (trad)

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smithsgj

Pazu's right. I don't think there are any cases where the trad:simp mapping is 1:many.

Pazu used the word trad twice in the original statement, that's what confused you Ryan.

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pazu

OH a typo mistake, sorry.

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Shi Rui'en

Yeah. You're right. I definately had my mind thinking the other way, but got it all mixed up! :mrgreen:

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shibo77

Switching from Simplified to Traditional is a big headache. It is very easy to understand/read a book in traditional script, but it would be very difficult for me to write them. I only formally studied traditional script from calligraphy classes. Many simplified characters have more than one equivalents. It can get confusing. Also, because I learnt simplified script first, I think better with simplified script, and I think they are better designed. But if you want to major in history or interested in Chinese culture, then learning the traditional script would be best. As for going to Taiwan, it's not difficult at all to understand traditional script there.

-Shibo :mrgreen:

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pazu

I can never agree Simp characters are better designed than Trad in most cases (just the opposite indeed).

Some exceptional cases (that Simp better than Trad) are:

众 > 眾

书 > 書

国 > 國 (well... better to have 玉 rather than 戈 :)

Maybe there're more "better-designed" one, but what I can think of now, are some bad characters like:

气 < 氣

飞 < 飛

东 < 東

后 < 後

只 < 隻

x又 or 又x < 仅, 权, 邓 etc

I'm not talking about the politics of simplication or the retainment of traditional values, I agree that characters should be evolving, and though I'm quite a "traditionalist" (writing mostly in Trad char), I wrote quite often in Simp characters too (in handwriting), but the fact is, the plan of simplication was a rush (because of politics?), and some are just WEIRED.

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ala

I prefer the simplified in general, except some of the below ones.

漢 > 汉

書 > 书

筆 > 笔

車 > 车

産 > 产

鳥 > 鸟

馬 > 马

達 > 达

And of course 東 > 东

I hate the simplified 书、汉、马。 笔 is weaker when written compared 筆, not to mention losing the phonetic rhyme.

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pazu

Some Simp chars are strange too... why did they have to simplify 奧 > 奥 , one stroke less! They simplified it because they wanted to simplify it. Non-sense. And wasn't simplified.

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shibo77

Sorry! I didn't want to involve politics. I think simplified characters are "better designed" and "make more sense" because I used it my whole life. An English person would think alphabets are "better designed" and "make more sense". It is merely opinion and personal preference. 澳 is simplified, though only by 1 stroke. Of course, lots of characters seem better designed in the simplified version than the traditional version, and lots of characters seem better designed in the traditional than the simplified....

龙 龍 Both are nice, I think.

飞 飛 Traditional is better, I agree.

旧 舊 I don't understand the logic behind the traditional character here, the simplified one is so-so.

龟 龜 I like the simplified much better.

-Shibo :mrgreen:

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39degN

i dislike these:

語——>语 言字旁给搞得很没有力道 橫之后變成直竪然后變成提簡直就是不會寫字嘛!(以楷書為例,草書寫法不在此列)

專——>专 原因同上 无力 而且莫名其妙

經——>经 工字上靣的東西簡直是個怪胎。

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pazu

Are you sure "ao" was simplified? I've checked the font in my computer, it's the same as Trad char...

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sm_sung

If you're talking about the ao in aomen, then yes it has been simplified.

Let me show you the difference:

Simp:澳门

Trad:澳門

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look exactly the same to you?

:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

The reason it has the same font on your pc, pazu is "Han Unification" . Basically, the Unicode designers conflated similar looking characters to reduce the number of characters that needed to be coded for in Unicode. It's only noticable if you bother examining every single detail. Another example would be the Japanese 黑, the upper portion is supposed to resemble 田 but since it was deemed to be a negligable detail only the more Chinese version is coded for. (Isn't this right , ala?)

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sm_sung

In general I prefer simplified characters especially when writing(It makes little difference when reading) for the simple reason it's faster to write in simplified characters.

Simplified characters I dislike:

汉(漢)-Very unimpressive looking character to associate your race with!

龙(龍)-Lacks strength in comparison with the original.

厂(廠)and 广(廣)-The difference is only one miserable dot!

Traditional characters I dislike:

龜(龟),麗(丽)-Hard to write well.

I think the best simplifiactions implemented were the radical simplifications 金-->钅, 食-->饣etc. The worst would be the conflation types:

Ex. 布and 佈---->布 the 人字旁 isn't difficult to write and help makes the meaning clear. Same goes for 表and 錶---->表.

But I do think that the simp from 後 to 后 was quite a good idea since 后is used very often.

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pazu

yes they look exactly the same in my computer.

And how about this:

, I think this is the Japanese written form indeed, mostly I wrote like 巳 inside.

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