Language of Xian

[Jovey]

Would anyone be so kind as to write a few words in the common chinese language that a person living in Xi'an would read in an news paper, etc.

so that I can at least have a general idea of what I am encountering?

I appreciate your advice concerning Chinese sentence structure and so on, but please, I really would like to at least view what these person would be reading besides (??) simplified symbols, she is to young to make a lot of sense of Calligrophy (characters).

In her words, . ."

I do not understand the development of Chinese characters

Because really was too young I has not been able to look clearly"

[dsrguru]

Your division of Chinese writing into "simplified symbols" and "Caligrophy [sic] (characters)" isn't accurate. There are simplified characters and traditional characters. Simplified characters are used in China (and therefore in Xi'an) and Singapore; traditional characters are used in Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau. The simplified forms of characters are sometimes identical to their traditional forms, but sometimes part or all of the character differs. Calligraphy just refers to various ways of writing characters, irrespective of whether they are simplified or traditional. If your friend can read Chinese, she can definitely read the regular kǎishū script, not just some calligraphic script like cǎoshū. In fact, you posted an image earlier with characters displayed in a regular kǎishū font.

[imron]

Here is a link to the website of a Xi'an newspaper.

[Jovey]

Imron, Seriously,Thank You, I'm sure it will be very interesting, It will be invaluable to me.

Now let me get back to the dsrguru,

Concerning;

If your friend can read Chinese, she can definitely read the regular kǎishū script, not just some calligraphic script like cǎoshū. In fact, you

posted an image earlier with characters displayed in a regular kǎishū font.

dsrguru is online now Report Post

So you are saying that, kǎishū script, means simplified Characters ?

If so then regarding the following;

The blank spaces under simp. means these are the same as traditional.

I have pasted in the characters represented, this then should be the correct simplified characters and then the same as, kǎishū , correct ?

[imron]

So you are saying that, kǎishū script, means simplified Characters ?

No, kǎishū is style of calligraphy, compared to say cǎoshū, lìshū etc. You can use it with either simplified or traditional characters. Think of it like "printed" vs "cursive" script in English. Anyway, yes, the pictures you provided are simplified characters, written in the kǎishū style.

Jovey, from the images you've provided it looks to me like perhaps you don't have Chinese fonts installed on your machine? When you visit the newspaper link I gave you, do you see chinese characters, or lots of question marks everywhere?

[dsrguru]

No, kǎishū has nothing to do with simplified characters. Kǎishū is just a non-cursive style of writing. Both simplified and traditional characters can be written in any of the calligraphic styles, including kǎishū (the most standard script) or more cursive scripts like cǎoshū. The characters in the image you pasted happen to be the same in both traditional and simplified Chinese, and they happen to be written in the kǎishū style.

Think of simplified vs. traditional as differences in the actual strokes of the characters (sort of similar to Greek letters vs. our Roman letters), and think of the various scripts as just different ways to write those characters (similar to how you can write Roman letters in print or cursive).

By the way, here's your picture the way it appears on the site (mandarintools.com) if you have Chinese installed on your computer.

The simplified column is blank because those four words happen to have the same exact characters in simplified and traditional. That won't always happen, though.

Edit: I didn't see imron's post. Sorry for the redundancy.

[Jovey]

Imron.

Yes little question marks everywhere !

I'll read the rest of messages.

[imron]

Then you need to install Chinese fonts on your machine.

[Jovey]

Hey ! Thank you again, I am beginning to understand that I really can use the software, I was beginning to wonder what the heck is going on, so when Chinese people view the little question marks they are actually reading the calligraphic interpretations, well whatya know, ok!

I have been translating to the calligraphics as per the pasted item, but I am not sure if she meant that my images were not clear as in registration or they were not her language, I am about to find out soon as I have sent her a very clear image.

[Jovey]

Ok, I've been so overwhelmed with all these communication efforts and translations, I totally forgot, I need an installation CD to gain the advantage of the upgrade. But you have been a lot of help, thanks!

[imron]

I was beginning to wonder what the heck is going on, so when Chinese people view the little question marks they are actually reading the calligraphic interpretations, well whatya know, ok!

That's right, the Chinese (and anyone else with Chinese fonts installed) don't see the little question marks at all, they see something like the picture below.

[Jovey]

Thanks Imron,

Very Interesting !

The newspaper is a novel approach to having a conversation piece.

I've sort of been roughing it without the fonts, I am definitely going to get that installation disc, since I have been using translation conversion and then arriving at calligraphic characters, and so on, I guess when I have it I can use a translater like google, etc. to check my work, (composition and sentence structure).

BTW, there isn't a download that will do the installation and or substitute for the disc, is there ?

So, it looks like I'll be taking the first step in the many miles I'll be going.

I am only hoping that kǎishū is her written language, I'll be knowing pretty soon.

In the mean time Happy Trails !

Jove

[dsrguru]

Kǎishū isn't a language; it's just the name for the most common style in which characters are written. It's like regular Roman letters in print vs. cursive. If she can read Chinese, she can read Chinese written in kǎishū. Because she's in China, though, she might only be able to read simplified characters, which sometimes differ from their traditional versions.

[Jovey]

Oh, then, "kǎishū ", is a penmanship style and ya mean that although the simplified version of calligraphic characters are understood, (as per what I've been reading), by most people in Xi'an,

that she may be an exception, if yes, . . I'm not sure of that, per her statement, ;

"I do not understand the development of Chinese characters

Because really was too young I has not been able to look clearly"

seems to me she is of the generation where the simplified version was the

teaching at the time, correct ?

so, what I am saying is , it is possible this staement arose out of a visual clarity, (registration) and she may have thought that the characters were traditional, etc.

[imron]

BTW, there isn't a download that will do the installation and or substitute for the disc, is there ?

Not legally.

although the simplified version of calligraphic characters are understood, (as per what I've been reading), by most people in Xi'an,

that she may be an exception,

Almost certainly not. If she is Chinese, and is educated enough to communicate with you in English then I would say she can most definitely read Chinese characters, so somewhere there has been some sort of miscommunication. Send her the link to the newspaper I gave you, and ask her if she can read that.

[Jovey]

OK, I was thinking along those lines, she writes me I receive the, (??)

simpl. characters, so these may be arranged by the translation service who may be taking her words and re-writing them into somewhat of an English sentence structure, at this time I am not sure how this has been.

But I think I'll do that.

[imron]

OK, I was thinking along those lines, she writes me I receive the, (??)

When Windows doesn't have Chinese fonts installed, then when it encounters a Chinese character, it just writes ? (or sometimes an empty box) instead. All of those ?? in previous emails will turn into Chinese characters once you install Chinese fonts. Likewise, if for example you were to open up an email, copy those ???? and paste them in a post here, then we would see them as Chinese characters and not ???.

[Jovey]

I have discovered that when I was posting simp.(?) in my notepad,

I can save them but needing to use a unified code, and when transferring these same characters to Word, they change into Calligraphic Characters,

[Lu]

Trying to recap, as it seems to me confusion is only growing...

Many scripts (=written forms of language) know different styles. 'Calligraphy' generally just means 'writing in a beautiful fashion'. In China, calligraphy is an art form. But you are not concerned with that now, your interest is communication, not art. So I suggest you stop worrying about calligraphy, kaishu, caoshu, penmanship, etc.

The common language used in China, including Xi'an, is Mandarin Chinese. When people say 'Chinese', they often just mean 'Mandarin'.

Chinese, as you may know, does not use the Latin alphabet (a b c d etc). Instead, it uses signs, those signs are known as characters.

You have seen a few characters, and may have noticed that they are sometimes made up of quite a large number of lines. (These lines are known as 'strokes'.) To make writing easier, the Chinese government reduced the number of strokes in many characters. These characters with less strokes are known as simplified characters (sometimes shortened to 'simp'). The characters with the original number of strokes are known as the traditional characters (sometimes shortened to 'trad').

Simplified characters are used on the mainland, where Xi'an is. Traditional characters are used in Taiwan.

In many characters, the number of strokes has stayed the same: they have not been simplified. In that case, they look the same whether you write simplified or traditional characters.

Characters have a meaning, and a pronounciation. For example, the character 你 has the meaning 'you' and the pronounciation 'ni (third tone)'.

Hanyu Pinyin, often written as 'pinyin', is a way to write Chinese sounds in the Latin alphabet (a b c d etc). Written pinyin can look like this: Ni hui xie Zhongwen ma?

Pinyin can also be used to type characters into a computer. I explained in an earlier post how that works.

But this means that before you can type characters, you need to know 1) what character to type: how to say what you mean in Chinese? 2) How to pronounce those characters. When you don't know either, it becomes impossible to write understandable Chinese.

Now, please Jovey get yourself a textbook, and a teacher, to patiently explain this to you better than I can over the internet.

[Jovey]

#1 ??????,???????????????

#2 I only know Chinese, I do not let you feel very disappointed?

#3

Ok Lu, But before we sign off on this I have one last request.

The #1, Chinese Characters is translated into English #2, and also into Simplified characters # 3.

In this case, since it is a sentence written to me by her, is it not reasonable to assume that if I were to reply to this, I can use a English sentence like #2, translated into Chinese characters like #1 and then translated into simp. characters like # 3. What is the problem with doing that ? That is also, if I check the character for the proper definition and grammatical usage