Prestigious rules defended by foreigners

[pazu]

Prestigious rules defended by foreigners

It's interesting to observe that sometimes foreigners are the defenders of prestigious grammar or other rules instead of native speakers. In English, sentences with double negatives are commonly used but in Hong Kong, most teachers will just tell you either to avoid using them, or simply tell you these sentences are wrong, and the RP (Received Pronunciation) is still held with such prestige abroad while in the UK, most people just ignore it now.

I've bought a magazine called the World of Hua Yu (Thế giới hoa ngữ) in Vietnam, there's an article about common grammar mistakes.

See if you can find out the "mistakes", some are really picky.

In Traditional Chinese:

1. 學生的作文水平較差, 比不上高二。

2. 父親的病情一直沒有好, 但是仍然不肯休息。

3. 偉大極了! 一千人大合唱的歌聲。

4. 這孩子的病, 看樣子是要住院。

5. 雷鋒的光輝是我們學習的榜樣。

In Simplified Chinese:

1. 学生的作文水平较差, 比不上高二。

2. 父亲的病情一直没有好, 但是仍然不肯休息。

3. 伟大极了! 一千人大合唱的歌声。

4. 这孩子的病, 看样子是要住院。

5. 雷锋的光辉是我们学习的榜样。

[cathaykid]

ah it's like the stuff from school!it's all about the usage of subject.let me try if it works out...

1. 学生的作文水平较差, 比不上高二。 -->学生的作文水平较差,比不上高二学生的水平.

2. 父亲的病情一直没有好, 但是仍然不肯休息。--> 父亲的病情一直没有好, 但是他仍然不肯休息

3. 伟大极了! 一千人大合唱的歌声。 -->一千人大合唱的歌声伟大极了!

4. 这孩子的病, 看样子是要住院。 -->这孩子的病(这么重), 看样子他是要住院.

5. 雷锋的光辉是我们学习的榜样。-->雷锋是我们学习的榜样.

[Taibei]

Converts are often the most zealous....

[pazu]

I think they're not zealous, it's only because they don't know if they can be flexible on the rules. In my Vietnamese grammar book (published by the National Univerisity of HCMC), they said "la.i" should be used for movement in a sphere which is considered close, but this is not true indeed. (eg. toi lai buu dien mot chut = I'm going to the post office, "lai" implies the PO is very near, as said in the book.)

For me a learner, how can I know I can be flexible on it?

Okay, here're some "corrections"~~ haha, some can be quite picky. 我现在用中文。

1. 学生的作文水平较差, 比不上高二。 -->学生的作文水平较差,比不上高二学生的水平.

=== 水平只有高低之分, 所以“正确”答案是“学生的作文水平较低”........ caTHAYKID, 我不是说你错, 我只是说那本杂志的答案。

2. 父亲的病情一直没有好, 但是仍然不肯休息。--> 父亲的病情一直没有好, 但是他仍然不肯休息

病才能好, 病情不能好, 而应该说“好转”

3. 伟大极了! 一千人大合唱的歌声。 -->一千人大合唱的歌声伟大极了!

歌声不能伟大, 伟大的只有领袖, 所以: 雄亮极了! 一千人.....

4. 这孩子的病, 看样子是要住院。 -->这孩子的病(这么重), 看样子他是要住院.

“孩子的病”没有“样子”可看, 所以要说: 这孩子看样子是要住院. 或. 这孩子的病这么重, 看来是要住院。

5. 雷锋的光辉是我们学习的榜样。-->雷锋是我们学习的榜样.

这句CATHAY很乖巧, 中了!

不过再说一次, 以上这几句, 其实也根本不算是错, 只是太执着, 太挑剔, 大家当笑话看就算。

[39degN]

不过再说一次, 以上这几句, 其实也根本不算是错, 只是太执着, 太挑剔, 大家当笑话看就算。

就是错误，只要稍加体会就觉得不对。

而且有的地方标准答案也有问题，既然是专门挑错的题咱们不妨再继续深化，例如：

1. 学生的作文水平较差, 比不上高二。 -->学生的作文水平较差,比不上高二学生的水平.

=== 水平只有高低之分, 所以“正确”答案是“学生的作文水平较低”........ caTHAYKID, 我不是说你错, 我只是说那本杂志的答案。

华夏小孩 的答案是对的，“学生的作文水平较低, 比不上高二”, “水平”如何能跟“高二”比，最起码句尾应该加一个“的”

2. 父亲的病情一直没有好, 但是仍然不肯休息。--> 父亲的病情一直没有好, 但是他仍然不肯休息

病才能好, 病情不能好, 而应该说“好转”

前半部分的主语是“病情”， 病情怎么会不肯休息？应该是“父亲的病情一直没有好转, 但是他仍然不肯休息”

3. 伟大极了! 一千人大合唱的歌声。 -->一千人大合唱的歌声伟大极了!

歌声不能伟大, 伟大的只有领袖, 所以: 雄亮极了! 一千人.....

雄壮还差不多，雄亮太少见了。

4. 这孩子的病, 看样子是要住院。 -->这孩子的病(这么重), 看样子他是要住院.

“孩子的病”没有“样子”可看, 所以要说: 这孩子看样子是要住院. 或. 这孩子的病这么重, 看来是要住院。

"这孩子看样子是要住院. "是对的. "这孩子的病这么重, 看来是要住院"有问题, 主语是病, "病"需要住院?

应该是：这孩子病得这么重，看来(需)要住院。

哈哈，看来语法对每个人都真的是个问题。

其实如果非要用语法分析的话，所有NATIVE SPEAKERS每天说的话裡靣至少有50％的句子有语法错误。

[39degN]

it reminds me of this essay on english grammar:

You may have learned that ending a sentence with a preposition is a serious breach of grammatical etiquette. It doesn't take a grammarian to spot a sentence-ending preposition, so this is an easy rule to get caught up on (!). Although it is often easy to remedy the offending preposition, sometimes it isn't, and repair efforts sometimes result in a clumsy sentence. "Indicate the book you are quoting from" is not greatly improved with "Indicate from which book you are quoting."

Based on shaky historical precedent, the rule itself is a latecomer to the rules of writing. Those who dislike the rule are fond of recalling Churchill's rejoinder: "That is nonsense up with which I shall not put." We should also remember the child's complaint: "What did you bring that book that I don't like to be read to out of up for?"

haha~~

[39degN]

and this funny and classical stuff:

Tips to improve your writing

1. Avoid alliteration. Always.

2. Never use a long word when a diminutive one will do.

3. Employ the vernacular.

4. Eschew ampersands & abbreviations, etc.

5. Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are unnecessary.

6. Remember to never split an infinitive.

7. Contractions aren't necessary.

8. Foreign words and phrases are not apropos.

9. One should never generalize.

10. Eliminate quotations. As Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "I hate quotations. Tell me what you know."

11. Comparisons are as bad as cliches.

12. Don't be redundant; don't use more words than necessary; it's highly superfluous.

13. Be more or less specific.

14. Understatement is always best.

15. One-word sentences? Eliminate.

16. Analogies in writing are like feathers on a snake.

17. The passive voice is to be avoided.

18. Go around the barn at high noon to avoid colloquialisms.

19. Even if a mixed metaphor sings, it should be derailed.

20. Who needs rhetorical questions?

21. Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.

22. Don't never use a double negation.

23. capitalize every sentence and remember always end it with point

24. Do not put statements in the negative form.

25. Verbs have to agree with their subjects.

26. Proofread carefully to see if you words out.

27. If you reread your work, you can find on rereading a great deal of repetition can be avoided by rereading and editing.

28. A writer must not shift your point of view.

29. And don't start a sentence with a conjunction. (Remember, too, a preposition is a terrible word to end a sentence with.)

30. Don't overuse exclamation marks!!

31. Place pronouns as close as possible, especially in long sentences, as of 10 or more words, to the irantecedents.

32. Writing carefully, dangling participles must be avoided.

33. If any word is improper at the end of a sentence, a linking verb is.

34. Take the bull by the hand and avoid mixing metaphors.

35. Avoid trendy locutions that sound flaky.

36. Everyone should be careful to use a singular pronoun with singular nouns in their writing.

37. Always pick on the correct idiom.

38. The adverb always follows the verb.

39. Last but not least, avoid cliches like the plague; They're old hat; seek viable alternatives.

[smithsgj]

39's post reminds me of (from memory) the famous mixed metaphor (used in the British Parliament, probably apocryphal?)

"Members of the house, I smell a rat. I see it looming on the horizon....

But I'll nip it in the bud."

[39degN]

39's post reminds me of (from memory) the famous mixed metaphor (used in the British Parliament, probably apocryphal?)

"Members of the house, I smell a rat. I see it looming on the horizon....

But I'll nip it in the bud."

is that a metaphor of me?

[zh-laoshi]

I learned early in my language career that nobody speaks like the books do. So when I'm critisized for my teaching methods, I tell them mistakes are necessary and a part of the learning process. It's unnatural to speka as you're supposed to according to the books. I think the best qoute I heard is "Since I've gone to University, I ain't spoke bad English since."

[zh-laoshi]

speka? I guess I should use a spell checker too.