好了没有？

[shadow]

大家好！

I've stumbled across this issue and I just can't find any description to it.

Can you say this?

你吃饭了没有?

你做好了没有？

好了没有？

From what I've understood, it's the same meaning

你吃饭了吗？

你做好了吗？

好了吗？

That is, the 没有 is used instead of 吗 and implies the question.

Correct? Oh this is bugging me. I hope this works, i kinda like this construction

Thanks for your help!

[HashiriKata]

Yes, you're right. 没有 can be used instead of 吗 in these sentences.

[Don_Horhe]

Sometimes, even the 有 can be dropped, i.e. "你吃饭了没？", although this is very colloquial.

[shadow]

Great! Thank's a lot for the quick replies.

But I think it is still a bit more colloquial than using 吗，right?

[HashiriKata]

But I think it is still a bit more colloquial than using 吗，right?

Right, 吗 is more neutral.

[shadow]

非常谢啦！

[anonymoose]

That is, the 没有 is used instead of 吗 and implies the question.

Correct?

Yes, but (and you probably know this already, but just for the benefit of others who might be reading) this construction can only be used to replace 吗 in certain questions, namely those asking about the completion or not of an action.

你吃饭了吗？

你吃了饭没有？

(吃 here being the action)

Compare this with 你喜欢看书吗？ Here the 吗 is asking about 喜欢 (as opposed to 看书), and since 喜欢 in not an action, the 吗 cannot be replaced with 没有.

[HashiriKata]

你吃饭了吗？

你吃了饭没有？

There seems to be a typo there. It should be:

你吃饭了吗？

你吃饭了没有？

[fanglu]

And then of course there's:

吃饭了不？

With the 不 pronounced as bo

Mind you, considering I've never seen it in a dictionary, I have a feeling its a bit non-standard

[renzhe]

Are you sure it's not 吃饭了吧?

[fanglu]

Are you sure it's not 吃饭了吧?

Not sure. The one person I ever asked how to write bo thought it a weird question (because nobody writes it) and came up with 不 and said maybe it came from 不是吗, but entirely possible she was wrong.

In Xi'an I heard bo more often than any other question-type particle and its usage was much closer to 吗 than 吧, so I thought my teacher's explanation sounded right.

[anonymoose]

There seems to be a typo there. It should be:

你吃饭了吗？

你吃饭了没有？

Yes, to be consistent I should have typed 你吃饭了没有？, but 你吃了饭没有？ is also possible.

[jiangping]

I think in Taiwan they can also say it:

你有吃飯了沒有？

which kind of illustrates what the 沒有 is doing at the end. Another way of looking at it would be that the 有 fills in for whatever the first verb was.

[jiangping]

Yes, to be consistent I should have typed 你吃饭了没有？, but 你吃了饭没有？ is also possible.

That would probably sound a bit odd because you don't usually use "verb 了" with simple objects - i.e. ones that aren't made a bit more specific. In this case the 飯 doesn't really have any specific reference...in fact, it doesn't even get translated into English: "have you eaten?"

[Jose]

Just to expand on the previous replies, I think the two possible ways of formulating these questions are a particular case of a more general pattern, where 吗 questions can be replaced by the affirmative and negative versions of the verb placed next to each other. This applies to yes/no questions, like "Are you Chinese?" or "Do you have a car?", which can be said in two ways:

1。 你是中国人吗？ 你有汽车吗？

2。 你是不是中国人？ 你有没有汽车？

In the case of verbal expressions involving Verb + 了 or Verb + 过, these are negated as 没(有) + Verb, so the previous pattern in this case involves combining the 了 (or 过) expression with the 没(有) negative, which must make room for the object of the verb. Compare the following cases:

他去看了电影。 = He went to the movies.

他去过北京。 = He's been to Beijing.

他没(有)去看电影。 = He didn't go to the movies.

他没(有)去过北京。 = He hasn't been to Beijing.

他去看了电影吗？ = 他去看了电影没有？ = Did he go to the movies?

他去过北京吗？ = 他去过北京没有？ = Has he been to Beijing?

As jiangqing mentioned, in Taiwan it is quite common to use 有没有 in these cases too (this is mentioned in p. 267 of "Chinese: A Comprehensive Grammar" by Yip Po-ching and Don Rimmington), so the above questions can also be found as:

他有没有去看电影？

他有没有去过北京？

This way of asking questions is common in many parts of China, not just in Taiwan, but in Taiwan (and possibly other parts of southern China) it is even possible to use 有 in the affirmative, so the answer to the above questions ("Yes, he has") could be a plain 有 (instead of the standard 去了 / 去过), more similar to the negative reply 没有 ("No, he hasn't"). Ping Chen's Modern Chinese (p. 98 ) mentions this use of 有 in the affirmative in Taiwanese Modern Written Chinese, and puts it down to the influence of a similar pattern in the Southern Min dialect.

Edited May 25, 2009 at 09:54 PM by Jose
Corrected sentences based on Hashirikata's remark in next post

[HashiriKata]

他去了看电影。 = He went to the movies.

他去了看电影吗？ = 他去了看电影没有？ = Did he go to the movies?

Where did you get these examples from? The position of 了 in them seems pretty unusual to me.

[Jose]

Where did you get these examples from? The position of 了 in them seems pretty unusual to me.

Hi HashiriKata, good point. Actually, I made up the examples myself, which not being a native speaker is probably not a very good idea, especially with sentences that involve 了. I tend to make the mistake of putting 了 in the wrong place with verb compounds. I'm not sure that putting 了 between 去 and 看 is completely wrong, but "去看了" is definitely the usual word order, so I have edited my original post accordingly.

[renzhe]

Wouldn't the location of 了 depend on which of the activities was completed?

[HashiriKata]

We're all non-native speakers of Chinese, so it's natural that what we've learned sometimes appear to be different and we can all be wrong . I think that in a string of verbs, the final one tends to carry the 了. This is just a rule of thumb and needs not apply mechanically.

[renzhe]

It would still be interesting to get a native speaker's opinion. Then we would know for sure.