agimcomas Posted July 30, 2009 at 01:56 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 at 01:56 PM What is the difference between the two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
盤古 Posted July 30, 2009 at 03:07 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 at 03:07 PM I personally have not heard of 呆 being used as "stay" although apparently it does have that meaning. 呆 generally means foolish or stupid. http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddict&wdrst=1&wdqb=呆 foolish / stupid / no expression / to stay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofmann Posted July 30, 2009 at 03:28 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 at 03:28 PM 待 呆 Basically, 待 is "wait" and stuff. 呆 is 保. I discourage its use as 待. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeyah Posted July 30, 2009 at 05:32 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 at 05:32 PM You're not the only one asking this question 请问“呆”和“待”的区别 also suggests that it's better to use 呆. But if you look for similar questions on the net you will find contradictory opinions from native speakers. Some say better use 呆, 待 is 书面语, others advocate the use of 待 saying 呆 means 呆傻. Anyway, my e-dict explains the verb 呆 as synonymous to 待, and then goes on to say 待 means 停留 as in: 你们在这里能呆多久？How long are you going to stay here? So, basic difference may be in that 待 implies 等待, waiting as in: 先待一会儿，再走 = 你先等一会 or: 爸爸上班了我整天就在家里和妈妈待在一起 = 等着爸爸回家. In both these sentences you can't use 呆. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renzhe Posted July 30, 2009 at 05:50 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 at 05:50 PM Google says: Results 1 - 10 of about 11,400,000 for 待会儿 Results 1 - 10 of about 9,670,000 for 呆会儿 Looks like both are very common in this context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agimcomas Posted July 30, 2009 at 06:01 PM Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 at 06:01 PM Thank you for the answers, it clears things up a bit. So far it seems that they are pretty interchangeable. But let me put my question clearer as well. The first part of the question is whether there is any difference in meaning between these two characters. The second part of the question is, why are there two characters that have (1) exactly the same pronunciation (dāi), and (2) apparently the same meaning in certain contexts. It seems that in the spoken language, there is no way of knowing whether we say 呆(dāi) or 待 (dāi), since both are pronounced the same and mean the same. Do you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted July 30, 2009 at 07:02 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 at 07:02 PM The first part of the question is whether there is any difference in meaning between these two characters. Apart from the common meaning "stay" as explained by others above, these characters have other meanings which you can best look up in most dictionaries. The second part of the question is, why are there two characters that have (1) exactly the same pronunciation (dāi), and (2) apparently the same meaning in certain contexts.There are many possible reasons for two characters or words to converge; and in a vast country like China, it's not unusual for different forms to be preferred by different groups of people and as a result, the two forms end up co-existing. Note that these two exist for other meanings & uses also.It seems that in the spoken language, there is no way of knowing whether we say 呆(dāi) or 待 (dāi), since both are pronounced the same and mean the same. Do you agree? If it's spoken, then what is the point in trying to deternine whether it's 呆(dāi) or 待 (dāi) knowing that both mean the same and sound the same ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agimcomas Posted July 30, 2009 at 07:17 PM Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 at 07:17 PM Hashirikata, It is rare that a word can be written in different ways and still mean the same.Usually, orthography conveys meaning. For example, when you utter the sound [so] in French it could mean many things depending on context. In the written form, it could be "sceau" (seal), "seau" (bucket), "sot" (fool), and even "saut" (jump). All these words sound exactly the same but are written differently, and this helps differentiate meaning. You could argue that, just like the 呆(dāi) and 待 (dāi) case, in English you can write "color" or "colour", both sound the same, both have the same meaning. But, the difference with the Chinese example that we are discussing is that, this is just a regional variation (UK and American). In summary, the 呆(dāi) and 待 (dāi）case is not at all similar to either the French or English case mentioned above. So, since you ask what the point is, the point is to acknowledge that this case is quite unique. I prefer to learn Chinese not in an isolated way, but by comparing it to other human languages. It makes it more interesting and it helps understanding concepts better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted July 30, 2009 at 07:32 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 at 07:32 PM I took your questions as genuine questions and only tried to help. Sorry if I was mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agimcomas Posted July 30, 2009 at 07:36 PM Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 at 07:36 PM Thanks, but I didn't appreciate what the point is. But I liked your explanation of the second question. Sorry too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobyqueen Posted July 30, 2009 at 09:22 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 at 09:22 PM Usually, orthography conveys meaning Isnt our writing system supposed to represent sounds rather than meaning? and the different spellings dont they depend on the original root spelling of the given word? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YuehanHao Posted July 30, 2009 at 10:58 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 at 10:58 PM Interesting. I only knew 呆 from Journey to the West. 猪八戒 often gets referred to as 呆子 in this book. Hmmm, so this is very irrational and almost certainly would never to come up, but just in case, if anyone is ever writing about me staying somewhere, all else being equal, I'd much prefer the use of 待 for this. 约翰好 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted July 31, 2009 at 12:23 AM Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 at 12:23 AM The 现代汉语规范词典 says: 待 dāi 同“呆”（3）现在一般写作“呆”。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in_lab Posted July 31, 2009 at 12:56 AM Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 at 12:56 AM Google says:Results 1 - 10 of about 11,400,000 for 待会儿 Results 1 - 10 of about 9,670,000 for 呆会儿 It looks like you didn't include quotes in that search. With quotes added, I get: Results 1 - 10 of about 663,000 for "待会儿". Results 1 - 10 of about 281,000 for "呆会儿". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaoxueren8804 Posted August 1, 2009 at 11:48 AM Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 at 11:48 AM They are the same when they are expressing the meaning "stay",but I prefer 待,I think people who use 呆 instead of 待 is very 呆,haha, just a joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muyongshi Posted August 2, 2009 at 06:39 AM Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 at 06:39 AM I tried using 待多久 and 呆多久 in a search {oh and quick note my sogou input only pulled up the former as an intelligent input} and the results were interesting: 搜索 "待多久" 获得大约 96,600 条查询结果搜索 "呆多久" 获得大约 134,000 条查询结果 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeyah Posted August 2, 2009 at 07:04 AM Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 at 07:04 AM Strangely, my input of 你在这里呆多久 gave 呆 as the intelligent input & the results are 百度一下，找到相关网页约2,620,000篇，用时0.001秒 & for the 'forced' input of 你在这里待多久 it was 百度一下，找到相关网页约2,280,000篇，用时0.051秒 which, again, proves absolutely NOTHING !!! :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spruceblue Posted August 2, 2009 at 08:37 AM Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 at 08:37 AM First, as people mentioned earlier, even the two share a similar meaning "stay/wait" in modern speaking language and are interchangeble in certain contexts, they have other completely different meanings. 呆 can be stupid. Second, in classical Chinese and modern written/artistic Chinese, 待 is the only/better choice for the meaning of stay/wait. example: 待到山花烂漫时 -- wait till the flowers blossom all over the hill. Third, even in modern speaking language, 呆 implies staying/waiting with no specific purpose (and this sometimes is a little stupid perhaps). example, 我呆在家里，无所事事 -- i stayed at home, and have nothing to do. hope this helps. Tian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artem Posted August 2, 2009 at 01:50 PM Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 at 01:50 PM I always felt that 待 means to stay, implying waiting for something While 呆 means just staying, not really linger, but maybe not have a stated reason either. For example, if I said "something is about to start, I'll stay", I would use 待， definitely not 呆. On the other hand, if I replied to someone that "I will stay in town for a couple of days", I would definitely use 呆. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in_lab Posted August 3, 2009 at 01:37 AM Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 at 01:37 AM Strangely, my input of 你在这里呆多久 gave 呆 as the intelligent input & the results areQuote: 百度一下，找到相关网页约2,620,000篇，用时0.001秒 & for the 'forced' input of 你在这里待多久 it was Quote: 百度一下，找到相关网页约2,280,000篇，用时0.051秒 As I mentioned, you need to include quotes in the search. "你在这里呆多久": 百度一下，找到相关网页81篇，用时0.138秒 "你在这里待多久" 百度一下，找到相关网页53篇，用时0.107秒 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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