Definite Denial Yào + Le and Bù

[Genova]

Hello hello.

I started my Chinese home study yesterday actually, but im really serious about it and have come up with some questions that I cant figure out.

I know this is the most basic stuff ever, but I find it confusing.

So help would be appreciated!!

it is about the "Yào + Le" construction

I believe this makes something happen without doubt, or something happening soon.

Example: "Wŏ yào mángle" ("I'm going to be busy" or "I'll definatly will be busy"

And combine this with the "Bù". I believe "Bù" is a denial word.

How will this fit in a correct sentence??

Maybe?? --> "Wŏ yào bù mángle" <--??

The reason I placed the words in this order is because I think that the "le" at the end can only be placed after a verb. Plus "le" being required at the end of a sentence.

So placing "Bù" before the verb "mángle"

Ok again, I know this is basic. But its my first day actually learning this, so help would be appreciated!

Ok the language nOOOb as I am... máng isnt a verb... MEH, I totally lost myself in the gramatical stuff that I stopped thinking haha. But replace this word by any verb you can think of, right now my Mandarin word knowledge isnt enough to replace it by something else.

But you get my question right!

Thanks

[renzhe]

I know this is the most basic stuff ever

Not exactly, and definitely not on your first day. There are many slight changes in meaning depending on whether you use "yao", "hui" or something else.

Wo yao bu mangle sounds like you've been really busy, but soon you won't be busy anymore. Don't ask me why, it's my girlfriend's gut feeling on this. It sounds strange to both of us, either way.

The easiest way to say you won't be busy tomorrow is "Wo mingtian bu mang".

Perhaps it would help to start with easier things first? Which textbook are you following?

[jetter]

I think that the "le" at the end can only be placed after a verb

no it is also used after a adjective for example hao le 好了 means ok

i think yao le is not so difficult as you though

the first one

I went out with my friend, to get a drink

wo he peng you chu qu he yi bei 我和朋友出去喝一杯 it emphasizes to get a drink

the second one

I went out with my friend, and we had a drink

or wo he peng you chu qu yao le yi bei ying liao

我和朋友出去，要了一杯饮料。it emphasizes i went out with my friend

in my opinion the first one does not differ the second one sharply they are nearly the same.

for example zhe ben shu wo yao le (这本书，我要了) means I will buy this book.

wo yao qu chi fan le(我要去吃饭了) I want to go for dinner.

sometimes it is just a lie around

[Genova]

Thanks!!!!

After some scanning/reading around I indeed saw that the Yao + Le isnt so easy as I tought.

I found it in the "Grammar 4" section of the top thread.

But my book, its a dutch book (im dutch) and it's called "Ni hao, chinees voor beginners" By Teleac (Ni hao, Chinese for beginners, Produced by "Teleac")

this book is (im ashamed) from 1983 hahaha, but I figured its good enough to get me in touch with the basics before moving on to a more serious book.

After some more forum reading I also figured that the Yao + Le (了) is used to connect 2 things in 1 sentence.

Example

I went out with my friend, to get a drink.

I went out with my friend, and we had a drink.

Adding 了 would state that we went out for the reason to have a drink, while without 了 we went out, and just had a drink by "accidant" because we felt like it.

Is this correct?

[Daan]

If you are serious about learning Mandarin, I'd recommend that you start by doing a lot of pronunciation drills before you start learning vocabulary. I can wholeheartedly recommend Jeroen Wiedenhof's De uitspraak van het Mandarijn in 101 oefeningen, which any bookstore should be able to order for you. It comes with a CD and has very detailed explanations aimed at native speakers of Dutch.

Also, consider getting your hands on a copy of Integrated Chinese. It's a very well-known textbook and also the one we use at Leiden University. It's probably far superior to any Teleac-NOT publication, especially if it's that old. It is in English though. You might even be able to buy them second-hand, there are always quite a few people who flunk their classes and decide to major in something else.

If you have any questions, let us know! And welcome to Chinese-forums, by the way ;)

[Moving_away]

I definitely second the advise on getting "De uitspraak van het Mandarijn in 101 oefeningen" of Jeroen Wiedenhof. Not being enrolled in any course or university, it still got my pronunciation rather straight (although one always need to practice, practice, practice, and I nowhere claim to be perfect at all). Tones and pronunciation of some problematic sounds (like z,zh,c,ch,sh,x,q) are dificult but i guess this book can quite well guide you pass it (it at least did for me )

[HelloNingbo]

Congratulations for starting learning Chinese !

Learning Chinese is not that difficult although more than 50% of (adult) learners give up after a few weeks. Why ? Usually because they don't follow the right method. Some students just try to remember dozens of new characters per day but cannot build a simple sentence, others will get interest in dialects before even starting with mandarin...

You have so many books with totally useless sentences as well as "mystical" type books explaining you pages after pages the origin of characters and lots of culture details far from being true but all these are marketing tricks to sell...

My wife has been a Chinese University Teacher for 10 years and years after years she developed her own lessons and techniques in Teaching Chinese to Foreigners (adults). This is probably why we always kept an eye on dozens of methods for children, adults, beginners, advanced, with CD, DVD, etc...and we have so many shelves packed with methods at home !

But a few months ago, we agreed with my wife that the best method available on the market today we ever had in hands was "Easy steps to Chinese" from Ms. Yamin Ma. Once again I've been the guinea-pig but hey, I got so many free lessons I cannot complain So yes we reviewed a lot using these books and I was thinking "what a pity I didn't start with those..."

Now don't get me wrong I am not a book editor neither a publisher, just a guy living in China for 10 years who is fluent today but still need to progress. Impossible to say "I speak Chinese" (meaning I know everything). Like mastering the piano or the violin, there is always new things to learn and this also why it makes it interesting !

The method I am talking about is written by Yamin Ma and Xinying Li. It is called "Easy steps to Chinese" and it is published by Beijing Language and Culture University Press.

There are 8 levels with a really well studied and smooth learning curve. Each level has 2 books: a textbook, a workbook + a CD.

You should try to have a look on the website "3w.blcup.com" and type 'easy steps' in the search tool on top of the page.

I don't know if you have access to an international bookstore but these books can also be ordered by mail maybe in your own country.

I remember one common mistake I used to do at the beginning was trying to translate everything I had in mind. If it's not a very good way when learning English, it is definitely wrong when learning Chinese. We must THINK in Chinese.

For example common Chinese sentences are often very short. (ni mang bu mang? are you busy ? ni qu nar? where are you going? hui jia le ma ? Are you going back home? etc). A translation of a taxi conversation like "Good morning Sir, would you mind bringing me to Carrefour? would simply be "qu jialefu" (eventually can add nihao in front)

Why? not because Chinese people are not gentle but mainly because they are busy in daily life and usually are in a hurry to go straight to the point.

(Please note that I said in daily life conversations NOT in business negotiations which is a totally different situation)

Talking about the process of learning a language can take hours or pages on this forum so I will stop here for today. Just be patient and try to follow a professional method in order to concentrate your efforts on the right points.

Good luck to you !

[t4phage]

Hey! Good job starting to learn Chinese! I have been studying it for the past year at my local university. Here are a few links that really helped me. Also, take it slow and get that pronunciation down good... I can't stress how important that is. I've been using the "Integrated Chinese" textbook series and can say that it is the best of the current english based texts.

Grammar notes: http://www.ctcfl.ox.ac.uk/Lang%20work/Grammar%20database/Grammar_database_content.htm

Pronunciation: http://www.ctcfl.ox.ac.uk/Pinyin.htm

If you hang with it, getting a native speaker to help you is essential. I spent 2 semesters studying Chinese and had a pretty solid vocabulary and grammar, but when I spoke to my conversation partner she could never understand anything I said. This was due to focusing too much on the written parts and not enough on speaking. So, take it easy with the grammar for now. 了 is an incredibly versatile and confusing particle that still gives me a lot of trouble. The two ways it is most commonly used is after a verb or verb-object, and at the end of a sentence. Key points to keep in mind about 了 is that it does NOT always signify past tense, but it does signify a change in state of the verb or the change in situation.

Perfect aspect - the action has taken place prior to speaking and it is viewed in its completion

我写了字。 "I have written the characters." (You have recently finished writing them.)

他回了家。 "He has returned home."

[past tense] 昨天他写了字。 "Yesterday he wrote characters."

[present tense] 他现在写了字，就去学校。 "After writing characters, he will go to school."

[future tense] 明天他写了字，他要画画儿。 "Tomorrow, after writing characters, he will go paint."

Again, don't get too hung up on grammar just yet. Focus on some basic sentence construction and pronunciation. I recommend getting familiar with 的，了，想，要，来，去， 也，都， 没，不，有， 是。 These are fairly basic (at first ) and they are used all the time.

[HelloNingbo]

Hi t4phage !

"when I spoke to my conversation partner she could never understand anything I said"

This is here (in China) the same problem with English Lots of people study English but have no chance to practice it with a native.

By the way you talked about 了 and wrote 他回了家 (ta hui le jia) but this not very common as this position of 了 insists on the fact that he returned home (really insisting on home compared with any other place).

In fact in most conversation we'd rather say 他回家了 (ta hui jia le) - I write pinyin too in case some guys try to follow but haven't started characters yet.

Still for 1 year you seem to be quite familiar with grammar...