想了半天 and other questions

[Kai13]

I don't really understand the meaning of this expression. My teacher told me it means "a long time ago", that true?

Okay, I know that 的 is a possessive particle, but I don't really understand it in the following sentence: 姓李的没有儿子。 I know what the sentence means, but I don't undertand what the grammar explanation for 的.

And what is 是 doing in this sentence? 他是说我没有儿子。 (he said I had no son?) Emphasizing?

What is 啊 doing in this sentence: "他是说我没有儿子啊！"?

谢谢你！

[克里斯托弗]

啊 is a word to accentuate/ underline something...

想了半天 means that you were thinking half a day long... which expresses that you were thinking about it a long time.

Im not sure about the other questions... sorry!

[Kai13]

Thanks a lot! You sure were helpful 谢谢！

Anyone else please.

Oh, other question, I don't really understand how to use a verb like this 问问, for example. Could someone give me a few example sentences (2 or 3, so I can understand better) and a brief explanation? I am still a newbie. I started mandarin 2 months ago, I know like 130 characters or a little less/more

Example sentences for the previous questions would also help.

[chrix]

Okay, I know that 的 is a possessive particle, but I don't really understand it in the following sentence: 姓李的没有儿子。 I know what the sentence means, but I don't undertand what the grammar explanation for 的.

的 is not only a possessive particle, here it is a nominaliser.

And what is 是 doing in this sentence? 他是说我没有儿子。 (he said I had no son?) Emphasizing?

yes. Li and Thompson call this use "marker of special affirmation", meaning "it is true that...".

[Kai13]

I'm sorry, but what is a nominaliser?

I edited my previous post by the way ;)

Here is the first part of the text I'm now studying:

从前有两个人，一个姓李，一个姓王。姓李的没有儿子， 姓王的没有女儿。 姓王的常常叫姓李的"老木"， 姓李的开始不知道是什么意思， 想了半天， 才明白: "他是说我的没有儿子啊！·

The bold parts are what I understand less.

Thank you all.

[chrix]

A nominaliser makes a noun out of something. So here 姓李的 means "the one called Li"

[克里斯托弗]

ah, now I got it too!!! Thanks for posting the context of the sentence!

[Kai13]

Thanks again！

how does 几 work here？ 四号是礼物几？ And how should that sentence be translated？

[chrix]

四号是礼物几？

should be a typo for 礼拜几

[Kai13]

No, it's not a typo. In my book and in the dictionary appears that liwu as "gift, present", which is the meaning I intended.

Could someone please tell me when to use the verb twice such as in 问问。My teacher said it has to express like "a little question"

我写汉字写得漂亮。

Why are 2 xie's here? I believe the first one can be ommited. Does the first one emphasize that fact?

Thanks a lot ;)

[chrix]

Well, then it doesn't make much sense then.

I suggest you get a grammar book for beginners, it will help you greatly with questions like verb doubling and so on, especially if your teacher is not adept at explaining grammar...

[shivasprogeny]

Could someone please tell me when to use the verb twice such as in 问问。My teacher said it has to express like "a little question"

Your teacher is right, verb reduplication gives the sense or meaning of "a little". So 想想 would mean "to think a little bit".

我写汉字写得漂亮。

Why are 2 xie's here? I believe the first one can be ommited. Does the first one emphasize that fact?

You can not omit the first one. When describing the manner something is done with a verb-object, you need to have Subject-Verb-Object-Verb-de-Adverb.

[chrix]

You can not omit the first one. When describing the manner something is done with a verb-object, you need to have Subject-Verb-Object-Verb-de-Adverb.

You can have a sentence such as 我汉字写得漂亮, but it would have contrastive function while verb copying would be the neutral construction.

[trien27]

四号是礼物几？ No, it's not a typo. In my book and in the dictionary appears that liwu as "gift, present", which is the meaning I intended.

Of course, it's a typo. And of course you don't intend to mean it that way: because there's no such thing as "礼物几" in Chinese. 礼物 does indeed mean "gift; present" but 四号 is used here to represent the 4th day in a month, so putting it together with "gift; present" is incorrect and doesn't make sense! Everyone who has learned Chinese will know that it is incorrect to say "四号是礼物几？", when the correct way is "四号是礼拜几？", where the more common way to say the same thing is "四号是星期几？", meaning "What day (of the week) is the 4th (day of the month)?" , "礼物几?" / "星期几?" = Which day of the week?

Edited November 29, 2009 at 08:00 PM by trien27

[trien27]

我写汉字写得漂亮。

You cannot omit the first 写, because it's a part of "我写汉字"! The second 写 is a part of 写得漂亮。Two completely different clauses.

[Kai13]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Trien27, got it. I now understand it. And yes，you were correct, it was a typo. I'm sorry. I was looking at my book's vocabulary list and it was listed Liwu. But in the sentence it is indeed libai. I'm so sorry.

[shivasprogeny]

You can have a sentence such as 我汉字写得漂亮, but it would have contrastive function while verb copying would be the neutral construction.

Right, but doesn't 我汉字写得漂亮 have a different meaning? That is "I write Chinese characters beautifully" vs. "My Chinese characters are written beautifully.'

[HashiriKata]

Quote:

You can have a sentence such as 我汉字写得漂亮, but it would have contrastive function while verb copying would be the neutral construction.

Right, but doesn't 我汉字写得漂亮 have a different meaning? That is "I write Chinese characters beautifully" vs. "My Chinese characters are written beautifully.'

1. In all practical purposes, I think a) 我写汉字写得漂亮 is the same as B) 我汉字写得漂亮.

Sentence B) is simply a way to avoid repeating the verb. The constrast possibility that chrix mentioned is a matter of context and nothing in the structure here dictates that it should be so.

2. "I write Chinese characters beautifully" vs. "My Chinese characters are written beautifully.": No, as I said above, the Chinese sentences mean the same and this difference in the English translations is only a case of misidentification (by some). If you really mean to say "My Chinese characters are written beautifully", it should normally be 我的汉字... and not just 我汉字... (and before you say it, 我妈妈，我家 are a different category all together.)

[chrix]

Hashirikata, Li & Thompson would disagree with you here. They are very clear about the fact that preposing the object is always marked, and thus has to have emphatic/contrastive function.

As far as 2., I agree.

[HashiriKata]

I wouldn't be surprised if Li & Thompson would agree or disagree with me

I don't know what their view would be on what we're discussing, but beware that readers can sometimes misinterprete what they write. I would agree, for example, in sentences such as 中国菜我很喜欢吃, one may prepose the object for the purpose of contrast. However, bear in mind there are also other motivations for object-preposing, such as in the case under discussion, where the preposing is simply to vacate the slot to accommodate the complement, whereby one can avoid repeating the verb: 我汉语说得不好 (Note that there's no such necessity in 中国菜我很喜欢吃 above.) Again, the object-preposing in the 把-structure has also nothing to do with contrast. So, I'd say that if someone was at a murder scene when the murder took place, that person may be the murderer. However, we shouldn't from this conclude that everyone who is at a murder scene is a murderer

By the way, the notion of contrast is still a very wooly one and one should use it with great care, as it can lead to such a situation in which it can be said that whatever one says is necessarily in contrast with something unsaid!