Use of 得

[psyphi]

Hi, I am struggling to grasp how to say what should be an easy pattern.

I want to say "Learning to speak Chinese fluently at an English University is very hard."

I have 在一所英国大学学习说中文说得流利很难。

But I'm unsure about the use of 2 verbs 学习 and 说 - which should get modified by 得?

Also, I'm pretty sure 说得流利很难 (speaking fluently is very hard) is wrong. But what is the general way to say + + , eg. "doing something well is hard"

Could it be that "speaking fluently" is treated as one element and it is modified by the adjective, ie. 说流利得很难 ?

I hope someone can clear this up as I can't find an example of a use of 得 like this anywhere!

[anonymoose]

I'd say something like this:

在英国上大学学中文，把中文学得能说得流利很难。

Perhaps a native speaker could provide a better translation.

[skylee]

Also, I'm pretty sure 说得流利很难 (speaking fluently is very hard) is wrong.

I think it is all right.

I know almost nothing about Chinese grammar so can't comment on what is right or wrong. But you might want to take a look at these threads, which might help ->

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/312-civilized-people-vs-barbarians74

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/3114-grammar-3-%e7%9a%84%e5%be%97%e5%9c%b0

[semantic nuance]

在英国上大学学中文，把中文学得能说得流利很难。

It seems all right to me but a bit not smooth by using 2 得 in a sentence. I will go like:

在英國大學學中文, 想把中文學到能說得很流利很(困)難.

Hope it helps!

Edited December 7, 2009 at 12:38 PM by semantic nuance

[HashiriKata]

It seems all right to me but a bit not smooth by using 2 得 in a sentence. I will go like:

在英國大學學中文, 想把中文學到能說得很流利很(困)難.

I took it a step further and got rid of all 得s (and also shortened the sentence in the process), but not sure if it still sounds ok:

在英国大学学中文，很难学到能说流利的程度。

[semantic nuance]

在英国大学学中文，很难学到能说流利的程度。

I will go like: 在英国大学学中文，很难学到说得很流利的程度。

[anonymoose]

It seems all right to me but a bit not smooth by using 2 得 in a sentence. I will go like:

在英國大學學中文, 想把中文學到能說得很流利很(困)難.

Thanks for the suggestion. I have another question, although maybe it is 钻牛角尖.

Do you have to include the 想 at the beginning of the second clause?

I know language doesn't always follow logic exactly, but I think if you include 想, then it seems like 想很困难. But it is not the "wanting" that is difficult. Rather it is the 学中文 that is 很困难. Or is this just a habitual way of saying it?

[psyphi]

Thanks for your replies!

[yocoso]

as a native speaker, i would like to say 在英国的大学里，很难把中文学好

if you want to emphasize the word "fluently", it goes like this 在英国的大学里，很难把中文学到说（得）流利的程度

it is OK to omit "得" in this sentence

[skylee]

if you want to emphasize the word "fluently", it goes like this 在英国的大学里，很难把中文学到说（得）流利的程度

it is OK to omit "得" in this sentence

很难把中文学到说流利的程度 is correct? I am not sure of this.

[imron]

How about something like:

在英国的大学里，很难学到一口流利的中文。

[HashiriKata]

Imron's sentence has reminded me of a sentence I've once seen on the internet "她说得一口流利的英语。" This looks like it has one too many 得 in it. Would anyone agree?

[yocoso]

i don't know how to quote

很难把中文学到说流利的程度 is correct

在英国的大学里，很难学到一口流利的中文。 i think you are a native

[imron]

i don't know how to quote

See here.

[HashiriKata]

I've once seen on the internet "她说得一口流利的英语。" This looks like it has one too many 得 in it. Would anyone agree?

Since nobody had commented on this, I had a think and recalled that I'd met this kind of 得 before. It's actually legitimate in the above sentence and is close in meaning to 能 in "她能说一口流利的英语。"

Anyone requires further explanation on this will be welcome.