Guoke Posted December 27, 2009 at 10:18 AM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 10:18 AM (edited) 楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你更快。 I was tempted to say that it's wrong too but I settled for the word 'weird' when I thought of other sentences like 我起床得比你早。 我读书得比你用功。 Are these sentences wrong as well? Can you explain to us why they're wrong, Kenny or Xiaocai? Edited December 27, 2009 at 03:19 PM by Guoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted December 27, 2009 at 10:20 AM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 10:20 AM Ok, let me spell out why I wrote "楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你更快。" I think it should be " 楼上的夫妇看中文报看得得比你更快" (the 2nd 得 is to mean 应该). But in this sentence, the two 得s together look a little awkward, so with the context making the meaning clear, I think 看得 can be dropped, as often happens in real speech situations, hence my sentence: "楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你更快。" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guoke Posted December 27, 2009 at 10:30 AM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 10:30 AM 楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你看得更快。 Does this make the sentence sound more natural? Sorry for being so inquisitive！ I sincerely hope HashiriKata isn't fuming...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted December 27, 2009 at 10:40 AM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 10:40 AM 楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你看得更快。 I think it should be natural, as should 楼上的夫妇看中文报看得得比你更快. (especially when it's spoken, since in written form, some may misread 得.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted December 27, 2009 at 01:44 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 01:44 PM 楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你看得更快。Does this make the sentence sound more natural? I don't think so. 我起床得比你早。我读书得比你用功。 Are these sentences wrong as well? I think so. 樓上的夫婦看中文報紙看得比你快 is ok. 樓上的夫婦看中文報紙比你看得更快 is also ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaocai Posted December 27, 2009 at 02:58 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 02:58 PM I think it should be " 楼上的夫妇看中文报看得得比你更快" (the 2nd 得 is to mean 应该). But in this sentence, the two 得s together look a little awkward, so with the context making the meaning clear, I think 看得 can be dropped, as often happens in real speech situations, hence my sentence: "楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你更快。" In that case I'd put the 得 before 看得, which I think would make it sound a bit more natural to me. That being said, it still feels kind of strange to me, and I can't explain why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaocai Posted December 27, 2009 at 03:02 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 03:02 PM 我起床得比你早。我读书得比你用功。 Are these sentences wrong as well? Can you explain to us why they're wrong, Kenny? I can't say that they are completely "wrong" since I can't explain why (well I don't think I have to coz I'm not Kenny ), but they just sound so weird to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny同志 Posted December 27, 2009 at 03:28 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 03:28 PM (edited) 我起床得比你早。我读书得比你用功。 Are these sentences wrong as well? Can you explain to us why they're wrong, Kenny? They are grammatical but not acceptable either in spoken or written Chinese. 得 is used after an adjective or verb to indicate the extent to which how something is or is done. The above sentence structure is correct, but note, the verb must be A SINGLE CHARACTER in most cases. That’s why 我起得比你早 sounds natural while我起床得比你早 does not. 例如： （动词+得）跑得快 吃得饱 玩得开心 （形容词+得）美丽得让人嫉妒 高兴得忘了时间 好得很 乐得不行 樓上的夫婦看中文報紙比你看得更快 is also ok. Better drop 更 要熄灯了，我明天回啊 （The electricity is going to be switched off soon. I will reply tomorrow.） Edited December 28, 2009 at 01:39 AM by kenny2006woo 慌慌张张，英文几处不妥 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guoke Posted December 27, 2009 at 03:31 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 03:31 PM 我起床得比你早。 我读书得比你用功。 I can't say that they are completely "wrong" since I can't explain why (well I don't think I have to coz I'm not Kenny ), but they just sound so weird to me... Go and take a look. I've edited the post... I know what you mean. I'd never put it that way either for the same reason that it simply sounds incorrect to me. I was just trying to work out Hashiri's logic. I'd probably say 我得比你早起床...... 我得比你更用功读书..... Do they sound better or more correct now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guoke Posted December 27, 2009 at 03:35 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 03:35 PM 楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你看得更快。 skylee, would you suggest a more correct sentence? Does "楼上的夫妇看中文报得看得比你快” sound ok to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted December 27, 2009 at 04:26 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 04:26 PM Does "楼上的夫妇看中文报得看得比你快” sound ok to you? No. Drop the first 得. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted December 27, 2009 at 04:28 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 04:28 PM I'd probably say我得比你早起床...... 我得比你更用功读书..... Do they sound better or more correct now? These sentences would work if the first 得 is pronounced dei3, (i.e. meaning must). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semantic nuance Posted December 27, 2009 at 04:49 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 04:49 PM But the meaning is 看中文报 (read chinese newspapers) and they are reading it faster than you. Is it possible that the sentence is 樓上的夫婦看中文報看得比你快? 我起床得比你早。我读书得比你用功。 They're correct when 得 is read as 'dei3', meaning 'has/ have to' If you want to say I get up earlier than you, then it is 我起床起得比你早. I study harder than you, then 我讀書讀得比你用功. Omitting the verb before 得 will make the whole sentence and structure strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guoke Posted December 27, 2009 at 04:51 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 04:51 PM Quote: Does "楼上的夫妇看中文报得看得比你快” sound ok to you? No. Drop the first 得. 得 is supposed to be dei, not de. This is HashiriKata's original sentence: 楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你更快。 (The couple upstairs shoud read Chinese newspapers faster than you.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted December 27, 2009 at 04:54 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 04:54 PM sorry I didn't read the whole thread carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guoke Posted December 27, 2009 at 05:10 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 05:10 PM Is it possible that the sentence is 樓上的夫婦看中文報看得比你快? 哈哈，越搞越亂... Actually, (s)he meant to say "The couple upstairs shoud read Chinese newspapers faster than you.“ 那兩夫婦必須看得比你快 （不知道是爲了什麽原因） 我起床得比你早。 我读书得比你用功。 這兩句的原意是： 我必須比你早起 (才可以...) 我必須比你用功讀書 （才可以...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semantic nuance Posted December 27, 2009 at 05:25 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 05:25 PM 楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你更快。 楼上的夫妇看中文报得看得比你快。 They're both fine when 得 is prounced as 'dei3' but I have to say the meaning of the whole sentence seems imcomplete. You will say sentences above to indicate that ' then....' For example, 楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你更快， 不然的話他們會趕不上上班。 Picture that: You and they are reading Chinese newspaper at some news stand. They have to be on time for work and you don't have to. So, if they want to finish reading it, they'll have to read faster than you so as not to be late for work. Just an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semantic nuance Posted December 27, 2009 at 05:35 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 05:35 PM 哈哈，越搞越亂...Actually, (s)he meant to say "The couple upstairs shoud read Chinese newspapers faster than you.“ 那兩夫婦必須看得比你快 （不知道是爲了什麽原因） says who? whose version did you refer to? I was guessing keitha's question. He/She didn't offer original sentence. "The couple upstairs shoud read Chinese newspapers faster than you.“ is not from Keitha, right? It's always safer to give the original sentence so as not to misinterpret the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keitha Posted December 27, 2009 at 06:15 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 06:15 PM Alot of responses, thanks alot! There is no context of importance to this sentence, it's a sentence my teacher gave us to practice grammar. The swedish sentence that she wanted us to translate was (in english): The married couple on second floor that is reading chinese newspapers is reading it faster than you. This is the answer we got from the teacher: 在楼上看中文报的夫妇看得比你更快. The purpose was to practise the use of 的 "在楼上看中文报的夫妇" and complement 得 "得比你更快". and also 比 What got me confused was the placement of 得 as I thought I should put it after 比+你: 比你得更快 instead of 得比你更快。 I am very sorry for all the confusion, I will try be more clear in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keitha Posted December 27, 2009 at 07:14 PM Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 at 07:14 PM I found at from some old notes I had on my computer that 得 need to follow right after the verb, wich should explain my teachers answer to the sentence I provided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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