Grammar describing "to the extent that" ???

[taiwanshaun]

Can somebody please please please explain the grammar of this sentence?

因為 很 難得 你 能 有空 的 跟 我 聊天

I believe an english translation of this would be:

Because you seldom have time to chat with me.

因為 很 難得 你 能 有空 -->的<-- 跟 我 聊天

Shouldn't the 的 be 得 ?

Because it is describing having time *such that* with me can chat.

因為 很 難得 你 能 有空 **得** 跟 我 聊天.

Is this second sentence okay?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Taiwan Shaun

[chrix]

I think it would be better without the DE.

As for writing of 的, 得, 地, you do remember this thread you started yourself, do you:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/23242-%e4%bd%a0%e7%9a%84%e6%96%87%e7%ab%a0%e5%af%ab%e7%9a%84%e6%80%8e%e9%ba%bc%e6%a8%a3-grammar-hmm

[taiwanshaun]

Of course I remember. But that still doesn't help me answer the question. I understand their individual uses, and I'm well aware of the Taiwanese propensity to use 的 as a kind of catch-all for all three of them. However, I'm just asking if 得 would be more appropriate, because I've seen examples of

我很忙得沒時間打電話 -> I'm so busy "to the extent" that I haven't been able to make a phone call.

So, to me, it seems appropriate in the sentence that I asked about.

No need to get snippy with me. I'm merely asking for further clarification.

Anyway, thanks for your reply.

[chrix]

Not being snippy, just making sure we're on the same page here

I don't think 有空 works that way usually. The standard construction is

"to have time to do X", which would work by simple juxtaposition, without DE.

忙 OTOH, has two different uses, as you can either talk about "busy doing X" and "so busy that X". While one can imagine a similar construction for 有空, I'd think it will be way less common (but if you were to construe it that way and you'd follow the tripartite DE orthography rule, then it would be 得 IMO).

Case in point (albeit unscientific): Google has a lot of hits for "有空跟我聊天", but none for "有空DE跟我聊天" (except for this thread basically).

[taiwanshaun]

Haha, man, I've got to make use of the omniscient power of google more often for these kinds of things. Yeah, 有空跟我聊天 makes a lot more sense to me, both as a student and a native speaker of English.

Yeah, I guess 有空 kind of means "have time *to*..."

Thanks!

-- Shaun

[trien27]

因為 很 難得 你 能 有空 的 跟 我 聊天

Omit the 的 & add a 夠 between 能 & 有 : "因為很難得你能夠有空跟我聊天"

Yeah, I guess 有空 kind of means "have time *to*..."

有 = to have

空 from 空閒 via 空閒的時間 = free time

Edited January 24, 2010 at 07:03 PM by trien27
spelling error

[Kenny同志]

因為 很 難得 你 能 有空 的 跟 我 聊天

Not grammatical I am afraid. A native speak is likely to say "因为难得你有空跟我聊天" instead, or more preferably 因为你难得有空跟我聊天。

我很忙得沒時間打電話

Anglicised Chinese I have to say. A better version would be 我很忙，没时间打电话， or 我忙得没时间打电话.

I have reason to believe that the quoted sentence originates from English sentence like, " I am so busy that I don't have time to make a call".

I know people who translate "she is beautiful enough to win the beauty contest" as "她漂亮得足可以赢得此次选美比赛", ignoring the natural expression that 她这么漂亮，能赢得这次选美比赛。"

Edited January 25, 2010 at 06:13 AM by kenny2006woo

[imron]

"she is beautiful enough to win the beauty contest" as "她漂亮得足可以赢得此次选美比赛", ignoring the natural expression that 她这么漂亮，一定能赢得这次选美比赛。"

But are those sentences equivalent? To me, the English doesn't necessarily convey the belief that she will definitely (一定) win, just that her beauty qualifies her to be among the top few contenders and that she could quite likely win if beauty was the only factor under consideration, but it doesn't discount the possibility that someone else who is equally/more beautiful could win instead, or that the contestants will be judged on something other than beauty that might in fact preclude her from winning. In fact, that English sentence could also be used in a situation where you thought she wouldn't win the contest, e.g. she is beautiful enough to win, but she doesn't have the intelligence/charisma/personality/drive/etc.

Anyway, I agree completely with the general sentiment that one should translate into something that sounds natural in the target language rather than a more word-for-word literal translation.

[Kenny同志]

Thanks, Imron. Yes, there was something not present in the original. I've dropped 一定 after viewing your comment.