Shanghainese-speaking ABCs in Shanghai

[Goujian]

Can anyone living in Shanghai tell me that native Shanghainese-speaking ABCs are not treated like foreigners?

I'm an ABC and I spoke Shanghainese for almost my entire life, born to Shanghainese-speaking parents. When I came to Shanghai twice as a kid, most people told my parents that I don't look like a local but look 'nga koh nyin', or outsider. I mean, I'm fluent, but close to fluent in Shanghainese. I'm only comfortable speaking Shanghainese around family members.

I wonder if I come back to Shanghai and start speaking Shanghainese, even though I look 'different', would I be treated like a foreigner? It'd be a rude awakening being treated like a foreigner by your own people.

I don't know where this belongs.

[anonymoose]

Well, I don't know what kind of clothes you wear normally, but given that Shanghai is fairly open to outside influence, even local people have a fairly broad range of dress.

If your Shanghainese sounds like a local, then I guess probably most people won't realise you are foreign. But of course, not everyone in Shanghai speaks Shanghainese.

[rezaf]

Why do you care so much about being considered as an outsider? Most of the people in Shanghai are waidi ren or at least have grandparents who are waidi ren.

[xiaotao]

Of course they can tell that your not a local. In addition to your way of dress, people in China are usually much skinnier, and generally their skin tones tends to have more a yellow understone. They don't use sunscreen. Their teeth are usually not as bright. I asked my Chinese relative about the teeth thing, and she said it was something in the water, and the lousy dentist she had in China. She had some major dental work done when she got to America. Chinese people who immigrate to America eventually look more Americanized after a while.

[Goujian]

Why do you care so much about being considered as an outsider? Most of the people in Shanghai are waidi ren or at least have grandparents who are waidi ren.

Technically 3 of my grandparents are from Zhejiang province (all from Ningbo and Zhoushan (when it was part of Ningbo)), except for one of them who was a Shanghai native. I speak Shanghainese and consider myself Shanghainese, but Ningbonese by paternal descent. I know nothing about my Zhejiang side except for some accents, some words and where my great grandfather came from and that's it. My parents and grandparents were born in Shanghai. To be honest, none of my greatgrandparents were nga di nyin (waidi ren), but shiang wu nyin (xiangxia ren).

Of course they can tell that your not a local. In addition to your way of dress, people in China are usually much skinnier, and generally their skin tones tends to have more a yellow understone. They don't use sunscreen. Their teeth are usually not as bright. I asked my Chinese relative about the teeth thing, and she said it was something in the water, and the lousy dentist she had in China. She had some major dental work done when she got to America. Chinese people who immigrate to America eventually look more Americanized after a while.

I guess that sounds about right. My parents have horrible teeth cause they've lived in China for more than half of their lifetime. And my mother thinks I'm overweight (even though I'm slightly overweight according to 'Western' standards).

[renzhe]

I asked my Chinese relative about the teeth thing, and she said it was something in the water, and the lousy dentist she had in China.

I think that there was some sort of medicine widely distributed to schoolchildren in the early 80s which resulted in teeth turning yellowish for the whole generation.

[Meng Lelan]

The Chinese in general don't have very good dental health care. I remember reading about the Chinese pairs skater Shen Xue getting major dental work done in the US because her teeth were in bad shape. A friend of mine from Hunan has the worst overbite I have ever seen and really needs an orthodontist.

[g1izmo]

Of course they can tell that your not a local. In addition to your way of dress, people in China are usually much skinnier, and generally their skin tones tends to have more a yellow understone. They don't use sunscreen. Their teeth are usually not as bright.

Is that why any ugly foreigner can get a pretty girl in China? I see more decent looking people in my local gym on a monday night than I have seen decent looking foreigners in all my months in China.

[gato]

I'm an ABC and I spoke Shanghainese for almost my entire life, born to Shanghainese-speaking parents. When I came to Shanghai twice as a kid, most people told my parents that I don't look like a local but look 'nga koh nyin', or outsider. I mean, I'm fluent, but close to fluent in Shanghainese. I'm only comfortable speaking Shanghainese around family members.

It sounds like you don't speak much Mandarin. If you can't speak Mandarin fluently, it's going to be hard for you not to be treated as a foreigner. It might be similar to a Hong Konger who doesn't speak Mandarin.

Most people who work in low-wage jobs in Shanghai, like convenience store employees and restaurant workers, are non-Shanghainese.

[anonymoose]

convenience store employees and restaurant workers, are non-Shanghainese

Restaurant workers, yes. Convenience store employees, no, most are Shanghainese.

[gato]

Are you talking about Family Mart, the Japanese chain, that is everywhere in Shanghai? I can't recall any Family Mart employee speaking Shanghainese.

There are a couple of local SOE convenience store chains like Haode and Kedi, which are usually staffed by older Shanghainese ladies. You might be thinking of them.

Edited April 23, 2010 at 09:49 AM by gato

[wushijiao]

I think an ABC could pretty easily pass as a local in Shanghai.

Whether or not you'll be considered a "foreigner" will probably go on a case by case basis. If you speak Shanghaiese, I think they'll generally treat you as one of them. But then again, ABC's often encounter a diverse array of reactions and have lots of different experiences with acceptance, so it's hard to say.

[anonymoose]

It will also depend on your accent. If you speak Shanghainese with an obviously American accent, then of course they will instantly recognise that you are not a local.

Anyway, I don't think you need to be worried about fitting in or not. Shanghai is the most cosmopolitan city in mainland China, and even if they realise you are foreign, I don't think it will have a big impact on your life (depending on what you want to do there, of course).

[Goujian]

My accent in Shanghainese is generally Shanghainese that leans towards Ningbo/Zhoushan accent, I am fluent in terms of pronunciation but less fluent in terms of vocabulary. I understand Mandarin, but I tend to lose confidence speaking Mandarin, so my accent tends to be erratic. If I concentrate and speak slowly, then I'm fluent, but with a moderate Shanghainese accent. In bad moments, I use more Shanghainese in my Mandarin, stutter, or speak with a stronger accent.