有点儿gay...

[aristotle1990]

You ever had a lesbian teacher or language partner?

[wedge]

My native Beijinger friend just agreed without hesitation that saying "好好吃" is feminine.

Also, I remember once saying "讨厌！" as an interjection and was quickly advised that only women use it that way.

[skylee]

Also, I remember once saying "讨厌！" as an interjection and was quickly advised that only women use it that way

Very true.

[Don_Horhe]

This seems to be a real issue, now that more and more people share their experience. Recently I had a Chinese friend tell me that I sometimes (she probably meant all the time) speak like a child or woman. When I thought about it, most of the time I've spent speaking with Chinese people indeed was with either my ex, my teachers (all women) or the kids which I taught.

[anonymoose]

I think speaking like a child is inevitable, especially intially when you are only able to construct simple sentences using simple vocabulary, and probably speaking rather slowly as well.

Speaking like a woman, well, we won't go there...

[creamyhorror]

Also, I remember once saying "讨厌！" as an interjection and was quickly advised that only women use it that way

Using 讨厌 that way is really cutesy, lol.

Those of you who want to know how to speak in a more masculine fashion, why not watch TV shows? In my case I watch certain Taiwanese dramas and variety shows, and I feel I get some sense of how they speak (e.g. only women saying 好好吃啊).

[liao]

Requesting a lesbian language exchange partner would feel even more awkward than simply requesting a male exchange partner. LOL

edit to correct typo

Edited October 8, 2010 at 02:41 AM by liao

[jbradfor]

One of the early ChinesePod intermediate lessons was on this topic. As part of it, John channeled his inner-female and talked as girly as he could. I still remember it as it was hilarious. [it was also somewhat of a warning to me, as I realized that I normally talk not that differently.... Since then I've stopped adding 啊 after every second sentence ]

[realmayo]

What about adding 啊 etc between items in a list when speaking, eg 有书啊、鞋子啊、被子啊、什么都有....

I don't mean in an exaggerated way. Is this girly? Or non-gender?

[gegehuhu]

ok so maybe sounding feminine is not the same as sounding gay

but i'm still trying to find some modal particles that are more masculine

can anyone help me out??

[xiaoxiaocao]

Maybe someone in Beijing could ask this guy and report back - http://beijing-chinese-tutor.spaces.live.com/

[Outofin]

I would say, don't worry about it too much.

有书啊、鞋子啊、被子啊、什么都有... is perfectly fine.

啊，呀，吧，呢 are much needed. 哇 is a bit comic.

I couldn't generalize the idea what makes one sound like a girl. I guess it might be just the tone. Maybe girls can talk really slow and with some twisted accents, which accidentally resemble language learners. The way I speak in English is close to a baby too.

[jbradfor]

Well, if you keep saying 不可以啊, like I found myself doing, it probably doesn't sound the best.

[And if you're wondering, I said it because I was copying what my (female, Taiwanese) teachers said.]

[And if you're wondering why my (female) teachers kept saying 不可以啊 to me, it was not, as you might assume, because I was doing something inappropriate.]

[deathtrap]

it was not, as you might assume, because I was doing something inappropriate.

Right, it was completely appropriate! *nudge nudge wink wink*

Are there any certain phrases or expressions in particular that will make your language sound more effeminate, or more masculine? I don't have the fortune to interact with many Chinese people so I don't know what kinds of expressions are common.

[anonymoose]

I guess those were the same teachers you learnt 讨厌 from.

[skylee]

Now could we just discuss what happened between jbradfor and his (female, Taiwanese) teachers?

[gougou]

I think you guys are making this whole issue too complicated.

Taiwanese Mandarin = effeminate, gay

Beijing Mandarin = cool, manly

Simple as that...

[aristotle1990]

Beijing Mandarin = cool, manly

Whoa, whoa, not to southerners it ain't. You mean gross and 土?

[creamyhorror]

Taiwanese Mandarin = cool

Beijing Mandarin = er er er er

fixed for ya

[renzhe]

Taiwanese Mandarin = effeminate, gay

Beijing Mandarin = cool, manly

There is far more truth to this than some might think. A large influence on this is the prevalent tone of the TV shows produced in Taiwan and on the Mainland.

Many popular Taiwanese shows are of the idol love story variety with cute girls, whereas Mainland dramas used to focus on dark societal darkness and corruption and darkness and the like. I also feel that the ideal of "manhood" is different across the straight, or at least this is what the impression one gets from popular media. Compare the typical male lead characters in modern Mainland and Taiwanese shows.

This is changing, though. If you want to sound effeminate with a Beijingy accent today, you can watch iPartment. Typically, however, you want to listen to any cute girl on any TV show (another example is the lead actress in 双面胶, who does a Shanghainese variation of cutespeak), and avoid sounding anything like it. It's not just the phrasing -- it's often about the intonation, stress etc.

In order to really pick up on this, you need to watch a variety of shows and get a more natural feeling for it. You can watch a Taiwanese manga adaptation about an all-girl school, and then watch a movie about Beijing's 流氓 or some male-bonding war epic about fighting the Japanese. Then emulate one or the other, depending on what you are trying to achieve.