Is learning Chinese really all that worthwhile?

[Harvey]

I would also advise that you don't teach English too much if your main goal is to learn Chinese; it occupies a lot of time during which you can't speak Chinese, and, I feel, the frustration of being open minded towards your student's ability to learn your language while you might feel you have difficulty learning theirs can lead to greater frustration (but maybe I'm projecting).

Thanks for this. I'll take your advice when I go to China near the end of this year to enroll in a language school :-)

[JamesGoff]

well im my opinion i think that people who learn English(Brittish) and people who learn generic US English , the people who learn English (BRittish) also seem to have better pronouciation , grammer , etc etc .

maybe this is due to the relativly more important teaching aspect , due to the lesser availability english (B) learning materials and 'bad' influences.....

[owshawng]

I do not think people in the UK in general have better pronounciation or grammar then the average American. Anytime I watch British TV many more people sound like Ali G or Jamie Oliver then sound like Tony Blair.

I think learning Chinese is definitely worthwhile. It may not put more money in your pocket, but it definitely can improve the quality of your life. Just think of the history, culture, and cuisines you can learn about in your studies. Not to mention the movies and tv dramas you will be able to understand when you watch them. Plus in some ways studying a foreign language can be like a second childhood. You continuosly learn new words, phrases, and idioms while learning to communicate. You get to experience the joy of being a toddler or preschooler again where everyday you learn more about the world around you and can build on things you have learned in the past. It helps recapture the sheer joy and wonderment of being alive that virtually all little kids have.

[gato]

that's a good way of putting it, owshawng.

[necroflux]

*sigh*.. OP is right.. I.. quit!

Hehe just kidding (and on the 1st no less, what a pathetic april fools joke that was).

I do know the feeling, but it's surprising to hear this coming from someone who is immersed in the culture. I can't imagine EVER feeling like learning to communicate with 1 billion people I would previously have no ability to talk to was a waste of time, for business reasons or personal. Add to that the cultural enrichment and business gains and it's a no-brainer for those who are interested, IMO.

I need to get more information on the dating scene in China. Is it difficult to get a Chinese girlfriend? Are Chinese girls shunned for dating foreigners? What's the deal?

Are you sure you aren't just getting a certain type of "cultural enrichment" in Taiwan you thought would be there? Apparently not since you had a girlfriend but I've seen the whole went-to-Asia-to-score-with-girls-who-like/can't recognize-ugly-westerners game a lot, as told on Forumosa.com..

I think learning Chinese is definitely worthwhile. It may not put more money in your pocket, but it definitely can improve the quality of your life. Just think of the history, culture, and cuisines you can learn about in your studies. Not to mention the movies and tv dramas you will be able to understand when you watch them. Plus in some ways studying a foreign language can be like a second childhood. You continuosly learn new words, phrases, and idioms while learning to communicate. You get to experience the joy of being a toddler or preschooler again where everyday you learn more about the world around you and can build on things you have learned in the past. It helps recapture the sheer joy and wonderment of being alive that virtually all little kids have.

That's amazing owshang! I've often wondered if others felt this second childhood phenomenon as much as I have. I thoroughly enjoy learning the language because of this; it's not only a chance to reconnect with that inner-child and to rekindle a furious childhood curiosity I almost forgot even existed, but to really look at what makes your brain tick language wise - i.e. how your language frames your thoughts, and really limits them in many ways. Language learning is one of the greatest mind expanding tasks out there - heck studies have shown the extreme advantages bilinguals have in maintaining mental sanity later in life.

[roddy]

Yeah, I've often thought learning a language (and its culture) is a bit like growing up all over again - you gradually get less and less incompetent until eventually you become some kind of adult-like semi-independent social entity. Certainly makes life a lot more challenging . . .

[Ferno]

about the staring thing.. hmm.. i can see how this could be a positive.. as a white person (correctly or not) they see you as a representative of an influential culture that many people admire. The influence of the west is shaping everything from society to architecture in China (and Asia) yet most people never see a westerner except in a picture or on a screen. In contrast, back at home you're a nobody. I bet an extroverted person would love this.

[Quest]

想太多了你。不过是人以稀为奇，物以稀为贵罢了。

[mlomker]

In contrast, back at home you're a nobody. I bet an extroverted person would love this.

Yes and so do the people that are looking for a boyfriend or girlfriend. In the States I find the Asian and mixed-race people to be exotic and fascinating...the reverse is true in China.

I think that is basically what Quest said, but you never know how much to trust those online translators. ;)

[Ferno]

haha, i'm not even kidding about having to use the translator "Wanted too many you. But is the person take is thin as wonderful, when a thing is rare, it becomes precious" :o

at least its grammar is better than mine

Yes and so do the people that are looking for a boyfriend or girlfriend. In the States I find the Asian and mixed-race people to be exotic and fascinating...the reverse is true in China.

yeah, although i dont think anyone would be looking for a boyfriend in China :o

and what do you mean the reverse is true, btw? asians and mixed race are not fascinating in China?

[mind_wander]

Mpallard,

Well, I am Asian-American (Taiwan, American, and China). I am a mixed between all three countries and full-blood Chinese. I have a feeling that you currently feeling the down turn because Taiwan is a more independent country. It seperates between Taiwan and China because the political difference.

I do heard about your President Chen Xui Bian, in Taiwan because every decision he makes has its consequences. I felt the same way here in the U.S, for every decision made by Bush has big consequences. Here in America entering with the war conflicts in Iraq, adding or wasting extra billions dollars a day makes me rethinking to enter more closer to the Asian Culture. So many tragedies within the 4 years, it kinda sucks right now, but we all hope for the better in the re-election of 2008.

[Ferno]

Asian culture... ah... my history isn't that good, but didn't China, Japan, etc... all wage brutal wars of conquest at points in their history as well?

[mlomker]

>yeah, although i dont think anyone would be looking for a boyfriend in China :o

Why is that? Quite a few women and gay men go to China.

>and what do you mean the reverse is true, btw? asians and mixed race are not fascinating

>in China?

Some Chinese people (in China) will consider foreigners to be fascinating because they look different.

[mind_wander]

It seems, alot of people are comparing between Taiwan/China. I did stayed in Taiwan at age 4 and made alot of friends. I actually comparing the differences between Taiwan/Mainland China/US. It was hard to assimilate in the US when I entered in elementary school, alot of disassmilation(lack of knowing what an Asian really look like) because of the difference in culture. As time past, I slowly learn the American culture. I think I can do fine in China, since I am bilingual in Chinese mandarin and English. This helps me to make friends even faster, and constant perservance to learn more Chinese.

[Ferno]

Why is that? Quite a few women and gay men go to China.

chinese men aren't stereotyped as being wealthy like western men are - women aren't likely to go shopping in China for a husband or boyfriend

men are the ones that get mail-order brides from poorer countries or go to the countries for the specific purpose of finding an accepting woman - who in turn will be assumed to be drawn to a high-value foreigner

somewhat of an exception might be Japan, where some white women will go to work as bar girls in Tokyo or something where wealthy businessmen will pay large amounts of money just to sit and talk and drink with her - there might be the possibility of her actually getting into a relationship while she's there, but that's not really the point :o I wonder if this market niche has spawned yet in China, with the increasing rich business class? Although if it has, it probably already existed in Hong Kong for much longer...

[md1101]

this is an interesting thread,

On the Usefulness of Chinese:

I'm sure if you can speak it it will be a very valuable assest. companies from all over the world are looking to do business in china now and will certainly give high regard to any foriegner particularly from their country that can speak good chinese. itll definitely make you a stand out.

On Taiwan vs Mainland: I'll just give my comment on the mainland. i admit assimilation is a little hard because everyone does think a lot differently and are always so amazed at the fact you're a foreigner. i studied in xi'an for a year. i did find though that after making an effort you can start to mix with the chinese more. also my university put the foriegn and local students in the same building which was good. in first semester we were in a secluded corner so i know what people mean when they say the foreign students are 'contained'. i now have a girlfriend from the university i went to and met a lot of her chinese friends. this also improved my chinese heaps. this leads me to:

Chinese girlfriends: i really like the girl i found and we know each other quite well now. but she did have to put up with a bit from some people for dating a foreigner. when she went back to her hometown for holidays SOMEHOW people had found out there and said things like "oh my god i dont know if its true but i heard some really bad things about you.... i heard you are dating a foreigner". when i left, the teacher that is suppose to look after their whole year said they shouldn't date foreigners or they'll just end up breaking up like me and my girlfriend (we haven't broken up). before i left she would constantly tell them not to date foreigners anyway. plus occasionly chinese men would say 'slut' as they walked past us to her. (but many chinese girls love the idea of dating foreigners.. i think the men are getting protective though)

Asian/mixed race/white thing: im half irish australian half chinese malaysian (half white half asian). i found id get mixed reactions. baisically if they thought i was western a lot of chinese would stare and be extra nice. when i was taken for asian id get treated like a local (which was fine but sometimes id find their way of dealings rude (they never say please or thank you or how was your day in normal day to day dealings). maybe 20% of the time i was taken as asian. funny.. the longer i was there the more i got taken as western (as i got paler and paler losing my tan). i dont understand the obsession they have with being white. i reckon it makes me look like im weak and sick. ahhh back in the aussie sun now.

I had this asian american friend though and it did annoy me when if he said he was american - the chinese would be like "OOOOOHHHHH??!?!?!?! (you know the sound) 不可能。。。他像中国人！"

ANYWAY overall i loved china and you get used to and understand their ways after a while. mainland is a good idea and i would recommend a smaller place like Xi'an as opposed to Shanghai or beijing or you'll just find a massive foriegn contigent and speak english most of the time.

last note: TONES ARE VERY IMPORTANT

[mlomker]

chinese men aren't stereotyped as being wealthy like western men are

Western people generally aren't as concerned about money as Asian people are. I know from reading threads on other boards that some Western women are attracted to the personalities of Asian men--they hard working...including in the bedroom.

who in turn will be assumed to be drawn to a high-value foreigner

I've spoken to a handful of male college students and they are desperately looking for a means to get into a Western college (their only viable means of leaving the country).

I think a lot of people confuse opportunity with interest. The guys just don't have as many opportunities to acquire a foreign female...they would pursue that avenue if they thought it would be fruitful.

In that sense I agree with what you are saying...you don't see a huge influx of ugly foreign women looking for cute Chinese men. lol.

[Ferno]

Western people generally aren't as concerned about money as Asian people are. I know from reading threads on other boards that some Western women are attracted to the personalities of Asian men--they hard working...including in the bedroom.

even if they're hard working, it's still a Chinese salary (unless they're bigshots). And women (regardless of nationality) don't really care about "the bedroom" at all compared to their male counterparts :o

[mind_wander]

mickdriscoll,

Yes, about the Asian mixed, if you say you are Asian( no matter what mixed), you are counted as an Asian, wierd but true. So, you don't get counted out of the generalization.

[mlomker]

even if they're hard working, it's still a Chinese salary (unless they're bigshots). And women (regardless of nationality) don't really care about "the bedroom" at all compared to their male counterparts :o

I think you missed the point--a Western woman could get that smart, hard-working Chinese guy a green card. I agree with you on the second point, but one guy only needs to find one woman that does care...generalities aren't relevant there. I primarily read Dave's ESL Cafe because it is more active than this forum...and some women do care.