Harbin, China

[Cyberian]

Hi,

Why is 'Harbin' spelt as it is on the Chinese maps but as 'Haerbin' in pinyin? Is 'Harbin' the name of 'Haerbin' from the local dialect like Lhasa and Urumqi (sp?)?

[gato]

Because Ha Er Bin is the pinyin (three characters) for "Harbin" (which is probably a English transliteration).

[Cyberian]

But why does it appear that way in official translated maps of China?

Canton is has been changed to Guangzhou in official tranlated maps of China.

Canton is by far more popular than Harbin, but has been changed to pinyin.

[marcopolo79]

爾 in modern Chinese is primarily used to indicate a "l" sound in foreign words, as such it doesn't really count as a full syllable, it's usually attached to the character which preceeds it (which, like most Chinese finials, ends with a vowel). Any vowel combination, i.e. a+er, ai+er, ao+er produces a quasi-diphthong that results in the two sounds meshing together. When Chinese people say 哈爾濱 it really does sound like "Harbin". (I'm not a linguist, so if it in fact is not a diphthong, please forgive my ignorance)

Also, Harbin, like other cities in China that have foreign names, such as Urumqi, Hohot, Lhasa, etc. are usually spelled out according to their internationally recogonized name rather than their pinyinified name.

Guangzhou is a Chinese city, therefore its name must be pronounced in Mandarin and written in accordance with standard pinyin orthography

[Cyberian]

OKay, thanks for clearing it up.

I figure all former Mancharian town and city names would be pinyinified by now.

[Ian_Lee]

Harbin is actually a Russian name. In fact, Harbin was created by the Russians as a railway town during the construction of Chinese Eastern Railway in 1900s.

And it seems the pinyin of Harbin has never changed. In Qing, ROC and PRC periods, Harbin has always been known as Harbin officially.

Urumqi and Hohhot are not "foreign" names. In fact, they were both towns set up by Han immigrants in early last century. In ROC period, Hohhot was known as Guisui and Urumqi was known as Dihua.

When PRC was set up in 1949, those two cities changed into Mongol and Uighur names to show political correctness.

[Cyberian]

So 'Harbin' was the original name? It was not called anything before that?

Also, what does 'Harbin' mean in Russian?

[Claw]

Guangzhou is a Chinese city, therefore its name must be pronounced in Mandarin and written in accordance with standard pinyin orthography

I can think of two exceptions to that: Hong Kong (Xianggang) and Macau (Aomen), though I guess they don't really count since they were foreign-controlled for a long time.

[marcopolo79]

Harbin is actually a Russian name. In fact, Harbin was created by the Russians as a railway town during the construction of Chinese Eastern Railway in 1900s.

Actually, Harbin is not a Russian name at all, it is derived from a Manchu word "Alejin" which means honor or fame hence the 爾 character, to approxomate the "l" in "Alejin".