Career development using Mandarin Language skills

[Milkybar_Kid]

I really enjoy studying Mandarin and developing my language skills. I also see it as a possible way out of the sticky ball world of teaching English.

However I am wondering where all of this effort will take me in the future. I have looked for jobs in my home country (the UK) that specifically require Mandarin language skills and the pick of the crop is very poor. One such example is this customer service job in Glasgow which is paying a pitiful 8GBP per hour. My mum earns more than that for wiping old peoples bottoms all day long!

I would love to get into international relations or some other governmental job using my skills but a quick glance at both the UK Foreign Office website and the European Union employment site show that they are not looking for people with Mandarin language skills (Slovakian anyone?)

Is it a case of picking something early on and just specializing in that one area (such as translation)? What hope is there for a young Western man with speaking, reading and writing ability? Above all else I am competing not only with all of the overseas Chinese who have been raised in the UK using Mandarin from birth but also the 1billion+ people in China. There is no doubt in my mind that in 10 – 20 years time China will be just like a huge Singapore where English is spoken competently as a second language by most of the population. Just look at the investment and effort that they are putting into learning English. We are all doomed!

So I am throwing it out there into the world of the ether. Where do you see your skills taking you in the future? Are you career focused or are you thinking about other things such as your family? Why bother?

Thanks

PS: Currently living in Taiwan, married to a Taiwanese, teaching English to support my family and didn’t proof read this post. Just incase it is relevant.

[xiaotao]

I once knew a man who learned Mandarin when he was 20's, loved Chinese language and culture, and was married to Taiwanese for 8 years. He was an excellent tour guide who knew a lot about Chinese culture and could speak comfortably with the Chinese. His tours were in English. He was fit (for an older guy), as he could climb the sacred mountains as easy as the people in their 20s and enjoy his liquor.

[Gharial]

About the "best" (~ paid, and steadiest) Mandarin-related job you could get in the UK would probably be teaching in it some capacity in state schools there, but the last time I looked the PGCE provision wasn't exactly being expanded, and the catch was that the teaching also of a European language (French, Spanish, German) to GCSE/KS3 level was a requirement that would in all probability take over from any teaching of Mandarin one had initially set out to do; then, it's probably easier if not more economical for schools to simply hire native Chinese speakers with some command of English, and/or Hanban minions, than to actually train, certify and then employ British people, plus being a school teacher isn't really international relations proper is it, i.e it'd likely be too UK-bound for your tastes...still, it might provide a foot in the door, a springboard of sorts into other things eventually, and you'd at least become more qualified to teach in international schools for expat kids and the like (than remaining in TEFL or similar, interesting and fun though TEFLing can be!).

Over the years I've rather got the impression that those who have halfway-decent Mandarin-related careers started off doing something else (e.g. were business or whatever skilled "hot shots"), and if they studied/had to study the language (as foreign learners), it was as a mere adjunct to that career, rather than the other way around, unfortunately (so I guess that those who've started off in language learning~teaching are probably destined to remain eking out some sort of career within mainly that field). It would be interesting though to hear any stories of those who've managed to "break out" into "better" things, and how they did it (more luck, who they knew, etc?).

Anyway, considering all the UK government rhetoric about the importance of China, it would be nice if there were a lot more Mandarin-related jobs, and that paid a lot better!

(Edit: I forgot to address the question of the general level of English in China, and the future - continued? - demand for it. I basically agree with what WestTexas has said below).

[WestTexas]

There is no doubt in my mind that in 10 – 20 years time China will be just like a huge Singapore where English is spoken competently as a second language by most of the population. Just look at the investment and effort that they are putting into learning English. We are all doomed!

You can't be serious... their education system here, at least with regards to English, is awful. I teach English here and I can tell you that there's no way that's going to happen. Consider that anyone under the age of 30 or so already had to take many years of English in school. Guess what, >95% of them can't even carry a conversation. Most of their English education consists of memorizing obscure terms, skimming passages quickly, and regurgitating grammatical patterns which even their teachers do not know how to use properly.

If you want one example of how horribly broken their English education system is, consider the abomination known as the CET. The CET, or College English Test, is the government's method of evaluating English for college students. It is basically a massive vocabulary test, multiple choice, covering such useful and essential English words as "cardiologist" and "dandelion". (Really, I'm not making this up). To study for this the kids just cram lists of thousands of English words and then practice speed-reading passages while barely understanding their contents. I have met students who passed CET-6 who looked at me with confusion when I asked them "How are you doing?"

You might get the idea that I'm exaggerating if you've only been to Beijing and Shanghai, but rest assured in most of China it is rare to meet anyone with decent English.

I teach English here and I can assure you that the English education is quite bad. Considering that and the fact that most of the population has no use for English, I draw the opposite conclusion that you did, that while the English level here may get better over the years it's never going to be spoken by a large portion of the population. At best the upper classes and the well-educated will speak it to some level... but it'll never be how it is in Singapore.

Having said that there will still be more than enough English speakers here to take all the jobs that require English/Mandarin bilingualism... sending hundreds of millions of people to English class every day is going to result in couple hundred thousand who are really good at it.

[creamyhorror]

Knowing Chinese won't make you rich; only you can make yourself rich. In fact, being too interested in learning Chinese is liable to make you poorer on average, I'd bet

[jkhsu]

You can't be serious... their education system here, at least with regards to English, is awful.

Compared to what, the education system of the USA? I've met 5 year old kids in Shanghai (ok I know it's Shanghai) who could tell jokes and recite short stores in English. Yes, they used memorization, yes, they crammed but their English is far better than a kid learning Chinese in the USA. I think you should really compare that. Yeah, I agree it's not going to be Singapore, India or even Hong Kong anytime soon but you gotta make the right comparisons. When you bring up "education system", you're opening a can of worms. Yeah, I've heard about the creativity discussions, etc. etc. but the truth is when it comes to applying for colleges, there are probably far more Chinese students who can pass the TOEFL than US students who can pass the HSK (in terms of percentages of the population).

[WestTexas]

Yeah, I've heard about the creativity discussions, etc. etc. but the truth is when it comes to applying for colleges, there are probably far more Chinese students who can pass the TOEFL than US students who can pass the HSK (in terms of percentages of the population).

I don't see how that's relevant. Chinese isn't a mandatory subject in the US. Here's a better comparison - Germany. Or the Philippines. These are also countries where English is mandatory in schools. Who speaks better English, Chinese or Filippinos? Chinese or Germans?

[Silent]

I have looked for jobs in my home country (the UK) that specifically require Mandarin language skills and the pick of the crop is very poor.

There don't have to be many opportunities, most people are satisfied with 1 job. Only very few have more than 2 or 3 jobs.

In my perception however language alone is a fairly useless skill. There are extremely few jobs that only need language skills and generally they're paid poorly. As you noticed yourself, any serious language is spoken in huge numbers and consequently there's plenty of competition. So little reason to pay a big salary.

The right language skills however may give you huge leverage if combined with other skills. There are a billion people speaking Chinese. Maybe there are 50 million (just a random number, no debate please) people speaking Chinese and English. I doubt there are more than a handfull of PhD's in biochemistry that know English and Chinese at a decent level. If you're one and find a company that needs one you're pretty much settled.

Essentially it's simple. If you've common skills there's a lot of competition and only low paying opportunities. If you've a very specialised skill set there will be few opportunities that make use of all the skills, but if you find one there will be fairly little competition and you'll be able to negotiate a decent salary. If you don't insist on using all skills there are more opportunities for less pay. The above mentioned PhD will qualify for most biochemistry PhD positions but probably won't be able to negotiate the salary that he could for a position where Chinese is essential.

[jkhsu]

Who speaks better English, Chinese or Filippinos? Chinese or Germans?

I am not qualified to argue this, nor do I have the time. But I can say that anyone who understands languages, character systems (for example, alphabet vs characters) and world history can put up a good argument. I'll just say that if you posted this in a native Chinese blog / forum, you'd get plenty of (harsh) answers.

[jkhsu]

@WestTexas - Since you mentioned you were an English teacher, in your honest opinion, how would you rate the level of Chinese among English teachers in China vs say the English level of Chinese teachers in the USA?

From my personal experience: I've met English teachers in China and most of their Chinese is pretty weak. However, just about every Chinese teacher I have met here (in the USA), even if they recently arrived, have a pretty good command of English already.

Edit: I know I've gone off topic here but the point I wanted to make was that China has done a pretty good job at getting English education into their system. Don't forget that just 20 years ago, China was not anything like it is now. Personally, I feel the changes that I have seen with regards to English education in China is moving at a faster pace than what the British have done for Hong Kong (and they had 100 years). In terms of English education, I also believe that China is moving at a faster pace than Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, all places that had many decades of direct contact / trade with the USA (though not colonization).

[roddy]

Like Silent says, language alone isn't going to get you that far. You need to actually have a skill set and combine that with language for a bit of an advantage - could be engineering, could be event management, could be accounting. You could stick with what you're doing and work your way towards managing a school or an English department, but having the Chinese skills to manage staff, talk to investors, the university administration, parents, whatever.

[creamyhorror]

In my perception however language alone is a fairly useless skill. There are extremely few jobs that only need language skills and generally they're paid poorly. As you noticed yourself, any serious language is spoken in huge numbers and consequently there's plenty of competition. So little reason to pay a big salary.

The right language skills however may give you huge leverage if combined with other skills. There are a billion people speaking Chinese. Maybe there are 50 million (just a random number, no debate please) people speaking Chinese and English. I doubt there are more than a handfull of PhD's in biochemistry that know English and Chinese at a decent level. If you're one and find a company that needs one you're pretty much settled.

Very well put. "Language alone is a fairly useless skill"...s'truth.

[xianhua]

The key to securing a China-related position is to think outside of the box - corny I know, but my recent career change is proof that it works. Forget searching online through job sites. In my experience, the only results you'll get for Mandarin/China searches are - as you have found - poorly paid and limited in scope. Combine this with the fact that several dozen native-speaking students will be making the same searches in the hope of securing employment after their university courses finish, then you are wasting your time.

Once I had eliminated this avenue as a route to securing China-related work, I then began to directly approach companies or businesses whom I knew were involved in China. In the area where I live (fairly rural) the scope for these opportunities is somewhat still limited. I came up with ideas such as a local fireworks shop (who I knew imported from China) and a private school who educate pupils from China and Hong Kong (among other countries). The latter is now my current employer. I simply approached them, told that I could speak Mandarin (by no means to an advanced level), had lived in China, understood a fair bit about the culture, and had a Chinese wife/family in China. The school hadn't been actively recruiting but were thinking about expanding more into China - which is where I now fit in. I now travel to China five times a year recruiting students in a position I really enjoy.

The school could have employed a native speaker, but they wanted a Western face (their words, not mine) and having seen the difference between the crowds of students a Chinese person and non-Chinese pull at education exhibitions, I understand why now.

One example of a benefit I have brought to the school is by using my family out there to get promotional material at Chinese prices - as opposed to inflated prices for foreigners, as they had been paying.

So think about your hometown, for example. Who deals with China/Taiwan there? Who may import/export from or to China/Taiwan? Think about how your skills could benefit a business and create an opportunity for yourself. They do exist; you just need to seek them out.

[Ludens]

What about working as a translator? This would seem the perfect job to me for anyone obsessed with the Chinese language... Is it that hard to get freelance jobs?

[Silent]

What about working as a translator? This would seem the perfect job to me for anyone obsessed with the Chinese language... Is it that hard to get freelance jobs?

I don't think it's that easy. I've no clue about the language skills of OP, but for decent translation you really need to know the language and often also the subject. I've tried to translate. It's very easy to get lost in ambiguity, cultural references etc. Often it's much easier to write from scratch. To make decent translations you need really good language skills. Apart from the language skills, how are you going to translate legal documents without knowledge of law, or technical documentation without knowledge of the underlying technology? Without other skills than language, translator is pretty much a dead end street. There's very little money in translating some simple chitchat.

[jkhsu]

There's very little money in translating some simple chitchat.

That's why there's Google translate.

[yellowpower]

agree that knowing Mandarin is only one part of the equation, and for maximum mileage, best to specialise in one area of advanced study in chinese: business (MBA)or economics, for example, or some field that interests you.

and it also depends if you have kids, as mastering a language and tend doing an advanced degree in that language is a major time cruncher, and a black-hole for expenses.

[AdamD]

Right now it can be hard to see what benefit knowing Chinese can have – especially in the UK, where links to Asia are relatively weak in global terms – but capitalist China is growing at a phenomenal rate. Here in Australia, the Chinese influence is increasing so rapidly that our mainstream press now carries multiple stories about the Chinese economy every day. China is now a crucial trading partner with us, and our solid links to China and the rest of Asia are very effectively protecting us from the European and US economic downturn.

As Silence said above, I see it as an additional skill to those I already have. I develop IT systems and documents for a living, and I can see how the ability to read, write and speak Chinese will increase my worth and employability in the short term, and keep me viable in an increasingly Chinese-speaking Australia in the long term (loads of primary school kids are learning Chinese now; in 20 years' time, I'll be competing with them for jobs).

[Meng Lelan]

Without other skills than language, translator is pretty much a dead end street. There's very little money in translating some simple chitchat.

Translating really is a dead end job. That's what I was for about ten years up to the late 1990s and it was horrible. Low pay, no benefits, no career advancement, nothing, absolutely nothing. I got out of it when I could see the Internet and computers practically robot-translate a lot of what it took translators to do.

[jkhsu]

loads of primary school kids are learning Chinese now; in 20 years' time, I'll be competing with them for jobs

There's a bunch of immmersion programs for kids in the USA as well. However, I am not sure how "useful" Chinese will be in the future in terms of jobs if you don't plan on leaving an English speaking country and living in China. I still believe learning Chinese for most people (who don't plan to leave their English speaking countries) is more of a hobby than anything else. Those who are going to actually get paid to use your Chinese would need to put in some serious time and effort in learning the language. With China now actively promoting English education, I suspect, in 20 years time, you'll still use English in the majority of your business communications.