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bhchao

Was Qin Shi Huang born illegitimate?

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bhchao

Was 呂不韋 really the father of Qin Shi Huang? Qin Shi Huang's mother was a concubine to 呂不韋 and she gave birth to the future emperor shortly after 呂不韋 gave her away to the King of Qin.

If this is true, then Qin Shi Huang would have committed a serious moral crime because shortly after ascending the throne, he forced the prime minister to commit suicide. That is the equivalent of killing his father.

This would have made Tang Taizong look like a saint!

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skylee

My first thought was "does it matter?". But now I see that you just want to make Simon Li look like a saint. :mrgreen:

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skylee

Simon Li = Li Shimin = Tang Taizong

Sorry I thought everyone understood it. :oops:

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yonglan

That's interesting. Are there any other historical figures who've been posthumously given English names?

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skylee

Oh yeah :lol: . Johnny Kong, for example, for 孔仲尼, Jimmy (子美) for 杜甫. I've heard people call 鰲拜 O'Brian. :mrgreen:

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yonglan

Anyway, bhchao, is this something you read or just an idea? How could we ever answer such a question?

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yonglan

Skylee, those are great. If you think of any more, please add them :clap

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bhchao

Yonglan, that is one of the alleged reasons Qin Shi Huang did away with the prime minister, for having an affair with his mother while she was a concubine and the possibility that he was a "bastard". Qin Shi Huang was said to be so enraged by it. It is in the history books and also in the movie Emperor and the Assassin.

Skylee, I was just teasing. Don't be too serious. If Qin Shi Huang really was illegitimate, then that means 呂不韋 was his father and his doing away with the prime minister would constitute a serious offense (at least in the Confucian sense) since that would be killing his father. But given his record towards Confucians, he probably didn't care or didn't know much about Confucian values. However you do not have to be a Confucian to know about the moral offense of doing away with one's father.

I never let my positive bias towards an individual prevent myself from accessing the negative truth, nor let a negative bias prevent me from accessing the positive truth. Knowledge is power, but truth is divine.

That's interesting, Simon Li. I thought you were referring to some movie star in Hong Kong 8)

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yonglan
then that means 呂不韋 was his father and his doing away with the prime minister would constitute a serious offense (at least in the Confucian sense) since that would be killing his father.

Oedipus Rex.

But given his record towards Confucians, he probably didn't care or didn't know much about Confucian values.

I don't know anything about this book,

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/0231104316/104-0605769-8816709?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=507846

but the reviews and info on Amazon are interesting. It's got positive reviews from Nivison and Mote. Of course, that period isn't Mote's specialty. Anyone read this?

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bhchao

Here is one source referring to Lu as the First Emperor's father. At first I did not believe the story when I heard about it in Emperor and the Assassin. But after investigating further, there might be some credibility to Lü being Ying Zheng's father.

http://www.mdln.hws.edu/chinese/huang/mdln312/supplementary/shihuangdi.html

"....She was Lü's personal favorite, but he would do anything to keep his "precious commodity" happy and dependent on him, so he agreed. He and the girl managed to conceal from Zi Chu the fact that she already was pregnant by Lü, and when a boy baby was born Zi Chu accepted him as his own son. Thus, Sima Qian relates, Lü Buwei was the real father of the future First Emperor."

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HashiriKata

Just finished watching "The Emperor and the Assassin" (for the 1st time :mrgreen: ) and I enjoyed it. It's subdued in colours but serious in intent and clearly has a story line. Yes, Qin Shi Huang in the film does behave like a real "bastard"! :mrgreen:

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Ian_Lee

Actually the story that led to the birth of Qin Shi Huang is so XXXXX-rated that readers like studentyoung would definitely object discussion.

I wonder how come Bhchao hasn't heard about it.

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Ian_Lee

When we talked about the love/hate rivalry between Qin Shi Huang and Lu, we can't help but also drag in another key figure -- Mr. 繆毒 -- into discussion.

However, 繆毒 is always labelled as 大陰人 in many history books.

But how can we explain 大陰人 in this forum without objection?

We'd better forget about the topic.

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