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waiguoren

A Question for Those with Elite Chinese

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waiguoren

From Pleco's《现代汉语规范词典》running on iPhone 3GS:

崴 wai3

1] 【名】...(irrelevant)

2] 【动】同"?"。现在一般写作"?"。

Note that there are only two definitions given; that means that 2) refers to the common usage as in "上山时不小心崴了脚". I can't imagine how there could be a character more common than "崴", and used in place of "崴", but that Pleco is unable to display.

What character could the "?" possibly be referring to?

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realmayo

... and who's going to be the first to claim Elite Chinese skills?

Edit: certainly not me! But my guess is it's trying to produce the character "昄".

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waiguoren

Realmayo,

That character appears to mean something like "big, expansive" and there is no way it is more common than "崴".

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realmayo

Could it be trying to squeeze two characters into one spot, ie 足歪 ?

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imron

Close. They're probably trying to show this character (links only because the forums can't handle characters outside the BMP).

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realmayo

Elite!!!!

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waiguoren

Realmayo,

It should be a single character. This is a common problem with Pleco and the 《现代汉语规范词典》, where characters which have no standard encoding display as "?". But this pretty much only happens for extremely rare characters as well as components of characters. Since the definition claims that the "?" is actually more common than "崴", this is very strange.

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roddy

That's a shame. I was really really hoping that 崴 was actually used as a question mark.

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waiguoren

imron,

But then why is it claimed that " 现在一般写作 '?' " ? I have never seen the character you are referring to, while “崴脚” is quite common.

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imron

Will hopefully confirm shortly with a physical copy.

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imron
where characters which have no standard encoding display as "?"

Not quite true. The characters will have a standard encoding, but the font used by Pleco won't have this glyph.

But then why is it claimed that " 现在一般写作 '?' " ? I have never seen the character you are referring to, while “崴脚” is quite common.

My guess is that it probably originally refers to handwriting and how it should be written, whereas for a long time you wouldn't have been able to input this character on a computer (for whatever reason I guess it wasn't common enough to be in the GB2312 standard, and later only made it into the extended CJK glyphs of the Unicode standard), hence on computers people would use 崴 instead.

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imron

I guess in the latest edition (published March 2010) they've changed their minds:

post-462-0-70759400-1331293579_thumb.png

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realmayo

Verily 向Imron同志学习 .... :mrgreen:

Also

扭伤脚或其他伤筋,原本应作“踒”,亦作“踠”。后来北方话字音有了变化,就改借地名的“崴”来记写了。这里看到的“��”,应该是与“崴”等效的一个自造字。但不知出处。

(here)

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imron

The other character is a much cooler than 崴 though. I mean what better way to write 'sprained foot' than 足不正 :D

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waiguoren

imron,

Didn't realize Pleco was providing an outdated version...will have to get on Love's case. Thanks for the help.

Realmayo,

That's a great link--thank you. Would be even better if I could display all the outdated characters.

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jbradfor

FWIW, as a single character, MDBG doesn't even provide the wai3 pronunciation/meaning. However, the only word that uses it, 海參崴, has the wai3 pronunciation. However, TW MOE dictionary has the wei1 pronunciation for that word as well.

So I'm placing this into the "too elite for me" category and not think about it any more.

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roddy

With that attitude you will never fully realise your Imron-nature. Grasshopper.

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realmayo

You mean .... we're all born with Imron potential? I daren't believe it!

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roddy

It won't be easy. Renzheness. Heifenghood. Imron-nature - the paths are not for the faint-hearted. I know, I have trodden them all and turned back in shame and failure. I hope now only to point the way, to act as a mere signpost for braver and more determined pilgrims. I gesture towards distant classical tomes, to obscure Chinese exams, to . . to whatever the hell it is Imron's up to these days . . .and I say to you . . "Thattaway, kid. And good luck to you!"

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jbradfor

“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”

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