dwq Posted March 28, 2012 at 02:01 AM Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 at 02:01 AM Greetings everyone, I have followed some topics on this forum before and have now signed up to post this. I am studying for the PSC (普通話水平測試) and needed flashcards for Anki, but I couldn't find any decks for PSC (unlike HSK which there are many), so I instead looked for its vocabulary list online to create my own deck. I found several sites that have the list, however they seem to be all based on the same (probably machine-translated pinyin) source and have the same huge number of errors. I put the list in a spreadsheet and tidied it up. I finished correcting Table 1 (6,593 entries) and I've also corrected a lot of errors in Table 2 (10,448 entries), but certainly not all. I also have written some python code to help looking for duplicates and such which might be useful in another project. I would like to share my work and look for help fixing the remaining errors. 1. Is there interest in a list of PSC volcabulary here? 2. If there is, what would be the best way of going about sharing it? I have been thinking of putting the spreadsheet up in Google Docs, but I have not used that before and do not know if it has good features for collaborative editing / preventing vandalism / revision management. (I would like to keep track of changes and the people who made them if possible) Anyone has experience to share? 3. Alternatively, I can put up the file read-only and have a discussion thread that collects corrections. Would this forum be a good place to do it? Regards, DWQ Edit 2012-03-29: The spreadsheet is online here now. It is read-only for the moment, please post comments and corrections here. File updated on 2012-03-31. Edit 2019-01-09: Sorry the link was dead for quite some time. I have uploaded the newest version here. It is still read-only but you can download a copy as .xlsx or .ods etc. (You might need to reformat the row heights and fonts after downloading, Google doesn't seem to preserve them.) As usual, comments and corrections are welcome. I have also uploaded a tab-separated value (.tsv) file created from the above spreadsheet data, you can hit download icon on the top left to download it. It collects all the reading of a word on one line. The fields are Traditional, Simplified, the number of readings, followed by their number in the lists and the reading themselves, and finally flags the type of vocabulary. I used it to create my Anki deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yialanliu Posted March 28, 2012 at 07:19 AM Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 at 07:19 AM DWQ, is there a reason why you are studying this? This isn't a test for foreigners (assuming you are not a native Chinese). The tests are ridiculously hard at the top levels since they are for certain groups of professions, teachers and broadcast journalism come to mind. People who go for 一甲 have done many things such as my ex getting surgery to correct her tongue and that was the only way she could pass that test. My fiance currently is 二甲, the minimum for a teaching gig at many schools and even that is something I can't pass and I am a native speaker. To put it in another perspective, the lowest level is the requirement for government workers. So if you're a chinese person wanting to work for the government, your chinese must be at this test's lowest level and that's not that low of a level since how many foreigners have better Chinese pronunciation than a local government employee? With regards to the usefulness, it'd definitely be cool to look at, but the number of foreigners who take this test should be close to 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted March 28, 2012 at 07:59 AM Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 at 07:59 AM DWQ, is there a reason why you are studying this? When asked: "Why do you want to climb Mount Everest?" George Mallory replied: "Because it's there". Sounds like a good enough reason to me but the number of foreigners who take this test should be close to 0 It is at least 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted March 28, 2012 at 09:15 AM Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 at 09:15 AM Cool, when are you planning to take the test? I used PSC study materials a lot when I was having my pronunciation fixed (probably need it fixed again now though). Never planned to take the test though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwq Posted March 28, 2012 at 10:43 AM Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 at 10:43 AM Oops, I am Chinese, just not a native speaker of Putonghua. I do not have a set goal about exam score other than making it a motivation to study, otherwise I'd probably slack off. If the skill one day comes out useful, that'd be great too. I have not yet looked at the exam schedule yet because, at my current level, the score would probably discourage rather than encourage me . I'll see how thing goes in a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTexas Posted March 28, 2012 at 12:21 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 at 12:21 PM The students at the university where I work have to take it. Those I asked about it all said it was extremely easy. Don't know what level. Granted, I am in a part of China which is considered to have more 'standard' Chinese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yialanliu Posted March 28, 2012 at 03:31 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 at 03:31 PM For a Chinese it is doable, passing higher levels is much harder, but getting to level 3 isn't hard since on the flip side, the number of government employees in China should show it's not too hard. However, a non-native speaker taking a pronunciation test for natives is much more challenging. Just wanted to make sure the circumstances were noted and I was curious to what was the motivation. At least 1 and many are still very far away. The number of foreigners who take this test probably accounts for less than 0.01% of this test's test taking population... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbradfor Posted March 28, 2012 at 05:42 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 at 05:42 PM 加油！ 加油！ I think it's great that you're studying for it. I think it would be fun to take the PSC just for the hell of it, if my Chinese were anywhere near good enough. If you have time, could you post more information? e.g. how you are studying, resources, experiences. And, of course, if you actually take it, how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heifeng Posted March 29, 2012 at 05:42 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 at 05:42 AM Hi DWQ I think you should register & take the test! You will get to learn where your problem areas are while preparing and be able to work to fix them! Find your local PSC office and they will probably also have materials available for review as well. You have to wait a certain period of time between re-taking it if you want to retake it, but you can always retake it, so no sweat. (Unfortunately for me that pesky 2008 was full of visa issues so I didn't get a chance to retake it before leaving...*sigh*...I can NOT believe it has been exactly 4 years since I took the exam!!). Imron provided a link above for the PSC thread I keep somewhat updated--Did you see the write up hidden in the Chinese Exams thread here about my exciting/terrifying/fun experience taking the exam? Anyway hopefully that will help those interested by providing an idea of what to expect) Also, if you are interested, I keep a 朗读 thread as a way to practice more (outside of the set 60 readings). I also have a list of words/Anki Flashcards for sections I & II, but they are personalized for my own tonal problem areas. Also, most of the practice tests I have are from online or my PSC prep book 模拟考试 Also, fyi, for those who are CSL students on the board, I do know other foreign students that have taken the exam, so the foreign student PSC test taking population does exist (particularly if a foreign student obtained his/her degree from a 师范大学)。 Therefore, if you have an interest in the exam and are in China, then you should give it a try! I had a fun and interesting experience taking it When asked: "Why do you want to climb Mount Everest?" George Mallory replied: "Because it's there". Sounds like a good enough reason to me Good enough reason for me too! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yialanliu Posted March 29, 2012 at 06:33 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 at 06:33 AM Once again, stil lless than 0.01%. But true, there are definitely a few foreigners like there is exceptions for everything. If your fellow foreigners wanted to be teachers (not 外教）then yes they should take it. That's actually using the test for its designed purpose, but once again, it's still a very small percentage. As long as you know what the purpose is, then go for it. My questions was not to discourage you, but just wanted to make sure what you wanted is achievable by this test since this test does have a purpose although it's purpose is not in-line with foreigners as much as the HSK is. It's similar to taking an LSAT/MCAT/GMAT/GRE for the sake of it. Definitely doable and there are probably people who take those tests for fun, but just wanted to make sure that you know what they are for and was just making sure you understand the tests background a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinewind Posted March 29, 2012 at 07:07 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 at 07:07 AM It is very difficult to get a一甲 (I am talking about average natives). I got a 二甲 years ago and I am telling you even that is not easy ( tried twice…) It’s purely a test for pronunciation so the northern people whose dialect is closer to mandarin will definitely enjoy an advantage. Notwithstanding the above, I don’t think it is mission impossible for foreigners. It is pronunciation anyway. You don’t necessarily have to understand what you are reading during the test (at least my case). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yialanliu Posted March 29, 2012 at 07:35 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 at 07:35 AM I never said it was mission impossible at all the levels. Only at the top levels. 一甲 一乙... I just wanted to point out the difficulty and it is not something to be taken lightly. But at the lower levels, I said it was easy when compared to the top levels since there are millions of government employees and teachers who all passed this test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal world Posted March 29, 2012 at 07:42 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 at 07:42 AM I would like to share my work and look for help fixing the remaining errors.1. Is there interest in a list of PSC volcabulary here? 2. If there is, what would be the best way of going about sharing it? I have been thinking of putting the spreadsheet up in Google Docs, but I have not used that before and do not know if it has good features for collaborative editing / preventing vandalism / revision management. (I would like to keep track of changes and the people who made them if possible) Anyone has experience to share? 3. Alternatively, I can put up the file read-only and have a discussion thread that collects corrections. Would this forum be a good place to do it? Well, i am certainly curious what this list looks like. Is there any way you can post a small portion of it to see whether there is interest in these lists among members here. I am sure the Admins could then suggest ways to make the lists available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinewind Posted March 29, 2012 at 08:02 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 at 08:02 AM @12 When I said mission impossible it’s simply because the majority (not you) might think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gato Posted March 29, 2012 at 08:17 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 at 08:17 AM I would like to share my work and look for help fixing the remaining errors.1. Is there interest in a list of PSC volcabulary here? Yes, can you post your Excel file here? You could also share it at the same time on Google Docs, though that's usually blocked in China and may not be accessible for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted March 29, 2012 at 09:37 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 at 09:37 AM Stick it up as an excel file, or if it's too large email it to me at admin@chinese-forums.com and I'll sort it out. Once people can see what you've got they may have more ideas about what to do with it. I don't think I'd noted a specific PSC vocab list as such before, although the book I used to have did list, eg, words that had to be read with a 轻声. Special thanks to everyone who's pointed out that an exam designed to test the pronunciation of native speakers to the very highest standard may be, at the higher levels, somewhat challenging for foreigners. I think we've all grasped that now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwq Posted March 29, 2012 at 11:35 AM Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 at 11:35 AM Thanks for all the concern and encouragements. I have put the spreadsheet into Google Docs and you can see it here. Depend on your browser settings the font might look funny since google do not allow specifying an exact font, but it shouldn't be too much of a problem. If there's interest I can attach the original excel (actually LibreOffice) sheet, it is only a few hundred kilobytes. I don't know how many of you would want to edit it, so I'm giving a read-only link for the moment. I'll take any comments and corrections here in this thread until I figure out how to go about it. BTW, does this forum let you edit your own posts? I'd like to put the link on the top post, but I don't see an edit button. Is it only because I don't have enough priviledge or is there no such function? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted March 29, 2012 at 11:42 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 at 11:42 AM You should be able to edit posts now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwq Posted March 29, 2012 at 11:53 AM Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 at 11:53 AM More about the tables: I went through Table 1 when I made flash cards to study, so it should be correct unless I didn't catch an error. I have not checked Table 2, and I know for sure there are still errors in it. I did write a program to make sure there is no duplicate reading (there were quite a few when I started), corrected a few errors that I happened to notice, and errors common to both tables. The numbering should be mostly correct, I made sure the number of entries is right, but some may be transposed that I didn't catch. Let me know if you find any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gato Posted March 29, 2012 at 12:11 PM Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 at 12:11 PM Where are these words from? Maybe a list of "hard words" should be selected from these big lists? It's hard to study with 10,000 word list, and most of these words seem pretty easy. Are you a HKer, btw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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