Married to Chinese woman, no university degree, how can I work in China?

[liuzhou]

he'll have a spousal visa

But the whole point of the original post is that there is no such thing as a "spousal visa" in China. All he can get is an extendible L-visa (technically still a visitor's visa issued as he is 'visiting' family) which definitely precludes working and self employed home tutoring is still working. I've known people kicked out for it (although advertising for customers on the wall of the local PSB office which issues the visas wasn't one person's more sensible move.)

[icebear]

Yes this person would be considered illegal, but I would just like to point out that the US is full of illegal immigrants.

There are also sporadic roundups and detentions of illegal immigrants in the US. The same may not happen frequently all over China, but it has been known to happen at least in some of the larger cities. (I have had my documentation checked in a random office inspection.)

I'm not criticizing the guy - its a tough situation he's in. I'm trying to offer the perspective that finding stable employment is just as important as finding compensating employment in his type of situation; he'll be of little use to his family in detention or with a red X in his passport and eeking out a living overseas.

[roddy]

Under the circumstances, you'd hope that if you can get a school on your side and you go along with them to the PSB and say that, look, this guy can do the work, he's married here, he needs a job, we need a teacher, how about we give him a break, they'd bend the rules the inch or two necessary.

[liuzhou]

BBC News - Beijing launches crackdown on illegal foreigners

Beijing authorities have launched a 100-day crackdown on foreigners who stay or work in the city illegally.

[Lu]

Transformer: Widespread practices are not always legal. Doing something illegal is not always a bad idea, but even if it might work, it is still against the law and thereby illegal. 'Illegal' is not a value judgement, just a fact.

Then the next question is whether it's a good move in this particular case to set up a school at one's house. In your opinion, it is, but the fact that it is illegal is a factor to be considered.

[panda23]

Two years ago, I bought a large whiteboard and started teaching seven students in my home. A month later, I rented a studio apt. and that number doubled. A year later, I had about twenty five students, divided into small classes of 2-5 kids. Next week, I finally move into a new, six-classroom school. I'm up to about 50 students, and have never advertised. Word of mouth has been good to me.

I really don't understand why people are so eager to work for others when the opportunity to be self employed is so readily available. I had very little exp. when I started, but I learned. My wife helped me organize the classes as first, but in time I was able to hire an assistant. Networking has been very important, and is the key to getting your name out there. If you are personable, patient, and willing to learn and grow as a teacher, I would definitely recommended teaching privately. Start slow and learn the trade. Even after two years, I'm still learning new things. I never intended to become an English teacher (or a business man, for Christ's sake) but I am better for it and it certainly puts the bacon on the table.

If doing this is as easy as you make it sound, then why aren't more foreigners doing it? I thought I remember reading on some forum that the government puts significant barriers to entry on this industry, in that you have to be an experienced educator or something. I would certainly be interested in knowing more about what you had to do in order to get your school set up (capital requirement, visa, other government red tape, etc).

[liuzhou]

If doing this is as easy as you make it sound, then why aren't more foreigners doing it?

Because it is illegal. See above.

[panda23]

Because it is illegal. See above.

It would be illegal for the OP since he doesn't have a degree and hence can't get a Z visa. My (slightly off-topic but related) question was assuming one DID qualify for a work visa, then are there any other laws that would stop the average foreigner from doing what this guy is doing (assuming, of course, that his 'school' is a legit business and not the guy doing it without telling the authorities)? Since there are many foreigners who speak perfectly good English but find it difficult to work for someone else teaching English because of some of the non-merit-based hiring requirements, is the do-it-yourself approach a viable substitute?

[liuzhou]

If someone qualifies for a "work visa*", then that documentation is tied to one particular employer.

It is still technically illegal to work for anyone else and that includes freelancing. Leaving the employ of the employer under whose auspices the documentation was issued leads to the cancelling of that status. So you can't just have working papers, quit, then continue working elsewhere.

So, I can't see how what you are (hypothetically) proposing can work legally unless the person gets a relevant business licence, legally registers his school and obtains the right to issue his own working papers through his own company. It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to legally set up such a venture in one's home. As you said there are barriers to setting up schools- and for good reasons.

*Actually a residence permit issued for the stated purpose of working

[anonymoose]

As you said there are barriers to setting up schools- and for good reasons.

Yes, so you just set up as a "training centre" (培训中心) instead.

[liuzhou]

"Training centres" also have to be registered, and require business licences. And even if they didn't, it still wouldn't get round immigration requirements.

[anonymoose]

But the point is that "training centres" don't fall under the same regulations that cover education, and thus are not subject to the same restrictions. Have you noticed that many so-called educational establishments actually have 什么什么培训中心 as their official title? And I am talking about registered ones.

[liuzhou]

Clearly I used the term "schools" loosely. Perhaps so-called training centres may not have the same restrictions as "schools", but that is a red herring. The point is the legality of working in them.

But I'm delighted that you agree that training centres are not educational establishments!

[anonymoose]

I'm referring to the setting up and registration of such schools so that they are legal entities, and not the legality of working for them.

But I'm delighted that you agree that training centres are not educational establishments!

And just to clarify a point that I assumed was obvious - I'm not saying that training centres are not educational establishments, but simply that by registering as a training centre, one can circumvent the legal restrictions applied to schools.

[liuzhou]

by registering as a training centre, one can circumvent the legal restrictions applied to schools.

But not the legal restrictions applying to training centres.

I'm referring to the setting up and registration of such schools so that they are legal entities, and not the legality of working for them.

Fair enough, but the conversation (and the whole thread) was about the legalities of working.

[jkhsu]

So what are my options?  How am I going to support my new family?

Have you thought about working virtually for a US company? What about signing up on sites such as elance.com, etc.? You can then wire your money to China (after paying US taxes of course).

[roddy]

That's a decent idea. Trouble is, what are you going to do? Anyone with those kind of mobile skills will be aware of the possibility already. Anyone without them is going to end up competing with Indians and Filipinos for poorly paid copy-writing and editing jobs.

OP hasn't logged in since posting his question anyway. Could be divorced and back in the US by now for all we know.