NPCR + which book for grammar?

[Rookie]

Hi, I am about to start learning Chinese. I chose the "New Practical Chinese Reader" (NPCR) as my primary Reader since the consensus seems to be that it's one of the best available today. So far so good. Nevertheless one weak spot of NPCR seems to be the grammar representation. So I wonder: Which book should I choose to complement NPCR? What makes sense?

I've read that outside China "Contemporary Chinese" (CC) is quite successful at Colleges and Universities. Is it true that the grammar parts are better in CC than in NPCR? (Unfortunately I was not able to find CC in the lokal bookstores to check myself.) Amazon lists a new edition (2010). Does anybody know it? Is it good (especially the grammar parts)?

Or should I (still for complementing NPCR) go straight for a real grammar book from the beginning, like "Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar: A Practical Guide" (by C. Ross) or "Basic Chinese: A Grammar and Workbook" or "Chinese: An Essential Grammar" (both by Yip Po-Ching) or are they all too difficult for a beginner? (I've got no problems with logic but of course I lack some grammatical terms for now.)

Could otherwise "Chinese Demystified: A Self-teaching Guide" (also by C. Ross) be a good alternative? This one should be easier but most probably not as precise as the three above.

What do you think? I am very open to your suggestions. In fact I will really appreciate them. Thanks in advance!

[li3wei1]

I have both the Ross (MMCG) and the Yip (CAEG, 2nd ed.). Both are good. Yip is more turgid, i.e. more linguistic jargon intensive, and more concise and systematic, while Ross goes out of the way to be 'practical', i.e. Ross's book covers the same material twice, once from a grammar perspective (structures), and once from a 'how to say things' perspective (situations and functions). Both are well-indexed, so if you're looking for a word or concept in Chinese or English, it will be in the index if it's in the text. Both have plenty of example sentences in characters, pinyin and English (Ross provides both simplified and traditional, Yip only simplified).

Here's an example to compare. One mistake students often make is using 和 to join sentences or clauses ("I ran down the hall 和 opened the door"). Yip says very clearly that this is a no-no, whereas Ross is less clear, describing 和 in the grammar section as a conjunction that joins "phrases that belong to the same grammatical category", and in the situations section as joining "nouns or noun phrases".

[Rookie]

Thanks li3wei1. Would you recommend CAEG to your students that are just about to start with Chinese? Or is it too early? (Or when is one ready for it?)

Does CAEG, like BCAGW, also provide exercises with key? I think not, or does it? Are the theory parts in both books about the same? After all it's the same author, just writing for a different publisher. Has anybody ever used BCAGW or even both BCAGW and CAEG?

Also any comments to "Contemporary Chinese" and "Chinese Demystified" are still welcome.

[li3wei1]

No exercises in CAEG. I think CAEG is fine for beginning students, though some may find the 'academic' tone a bit heavy going.

[siledouyaoai]

The allsetlearning grammar wiki is good for reference, particularly the A1 and A2 points. http://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Main_Page

[anonymoose]

Personally, I don't recommend CAEG for learning. It is a reference book, and assumes knowledge of Chinese. I suggest BCAGW, because this is actually aimed at beginner students like yourself. It builds up systematically throughout the book, not only in terms of grammar, but also vocabulary. So as you work through the book and complete the exercises, you will recycle the grammar and vocabulary as you go along. I don't have Ross, so I can't compare, but I found the explanations in BCAGW to be fairly lucid. I wholeheartedly recommend this book.

[BertR]

I would advice A Practical Chinese Grammar. I used this book years ago in combination with NPCR and thought it was a good combination. The explanations were really accessible and clear.

Actually the book was originally created because the explanations in Practical Chinese Reader (the predecessor of NPCR) weren't that well worked out and clear. This link with PCR is now the weakest point of this book since they follow the order in which things are explained in PCR, which is not always the ideal order and some grammar points are better explained together with other ones or in a different order.

[Rookie]

Thanks, siledouyaoai, great find. Will certainly use it now and then.

Thanks, anonymoose, for that clear statement. Helps me to decide.

Thanks, BertR, that's very interesting, too. I guess this one only shares the name but is not the 2nd edition of the book you suggested, is it? If only there was a "New Practical Chinese Grammar" accompanying NPCR.

I still hope someone could also comment on "Chinese Demystified".

[BertR]

Yes, there are completely unrelated. There is even a third book with a similar name. If I recall correctly, the grammar book I was referring to was originally written for students at UC Berkeley who where using PCR at that time. The professor is now an emeritus professor and no longer teaching there, so I doubt that "New Practical Chinese Grammar" would ever appear (at least not written by that professor).

[Daming]

I've taken a look at a lot grammar books. For me "A Modern Chinese Grammar" is the best one. It's also available as pdf.