China and being slim

[realmayo]

Scandinavian: I'm not even going to attempt to explain the circularity of your argument there!

[keitha]

One VERY important factor is how much you actually move your body around. The people who drives a car or jump in and out of a taxi instead of walking to and from the metro will definitely have to eat less or go to the gym to burn that energy. If something is within 30 minutes of walking I usually just walk there, my Chinese friends will do the same or ride their bike. Most of my foreign friends here in Beijing will take the metro or grab a taxi.

Back in my home town in Sweden 100% of my friends drive their car pretty much everywhere and all of them are overweight at age 35-45. In Stockholm people are way slimmer, I blame their smaller frame on more exercise as it is not common to own a car among my friends in Stockholm. They walk and ride their bikes because it is more convenient than having a car. Being expensive was one of the reason i swore to never own a car in Sweden, the other reason was that I enjoy being healthy and in shape without having to go to the gym. I have no statistics on this but quite a lot of the Chinese I see who owns a car ( I know a few of them) are definitely on the chubby side. Maybe what we would call normal or in shape in the west, depending on which country.

It is really hard to compare ones eating habits with others, hell, write down your own weekly diet and you will probably be surprised. I do not think oil in food is that bad, I gained 3kg in one year here and I blame the noodles and sugar added to food. I also used to eat a lot of pancakes from the street vendors. I need to get back down to my 168cm 62kg so I am cutting down on noodles, pancakes (which is more like bread in most cases).

I think people should look at some footage from the 70s, from concerts, beaches etc to see how much leaner we used to be.

[keitha]

My fellow Scandinavian have a valid point with many dishes on the table, it will make you feel more full. Add the wait for the next dish to be served and you will have the proven strategy of eating slow to get full on less food. If I order three dishes I usually end up full before the third one is served because I am slowly eating away on the first or second dish. Order one big, easy to eat meal will for many people speed up the pace, and a lot of people will eat more than if they had many dishes to eat from.

[roddy]

Nonsense, I fear. Nobody ever sat down at a table groaning with food, looked at it and said "God, I feel full." If anything the Chinese style of eating takes away the "I have finished my portion" cue and just lets you keep on eating until you can no longer go on.

[realmayo]

One VERY important factor is how much you actually move your body around.

What studies show this? My understanding is that if you are active, your metabolism slows down in order to hold on to energy (and your hunger increases, causing you to eat more calories). At least, that's what we evolved to do. Like other animals. They don't get overweight, and they certainly don't count calories! I'm much more inclined to believe that there could be a correlation between being inactive and buying mass-processed foods very full of sugar, versus being someone who feels it's "healthy" to walk from A to B where possible, and committing the time and energy to cooking up meals from scratch.

Back to oil in Chinese food: even if you believe the whole calories thing, well: fat has double the calories of carbs. Rice is 80% carbs, oil is 100% fat. Which means that 10g of pure oil is no worse for your weight than (approx) 24g of rice.

And of course, there are so many variables in comparing your lifestyle and eating habits in your home country with how you get on in a brand new environment where the what, when, where and how of eating has changed -- it wouldn't be a surprise if your system is thrown out of balance.

[Scandinavian]

I'm not even going to attempt to explain the circularity of your argument there!

The circularity is probably the cause of obesity, fat people keep lying to themselves and therefore they keep eating too much.

If anything the Chinese style of eating takes away the "I have finished my portion" cue and just lets you keep on eating until you can no longer go on.

This cue also introduces the "I will force every last bit of this portion into my stomach even though 50% would have been enough" problem.

One VERY important factor is how much you actually move your body around.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/metabolism/WT00006/NSECTIONGROUP=2 In fact, fat people need to move less to achieve the same amount of calories burned, as moving a heavy object requires more energy than moving a small object.

[gato]

Back to Joshua's question: Why does he have to eat steamed vegetables in Xiamen in order to keep the same weight that he has in the UK eating curry, fish 'n chips, and shepard's pie?

[realmayo]

fat people keep lying to themselves and therefore they keep eating too much.

I admit, I used to think this until I put on a bit of weight and the only way I could lose it was by increasing the amount of calories I ate. Never underestimate the zeal of the convert! All the info is here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-We-Get-Fat-about/dp/0307949435

Back to Joshua's question: Why does he have to eat steamed vegetables in Xiamen in order to keep the same weight that he has in the UK eating curry, fish 'n chips, and shepard's pie?

Well, the Scandinavian reply is that Joshua is lying to himself and is forcing down a couple of packs of Oreos alongside every meal. Is that true Joshua?

[Scandinavian]

but if you followed that book you did a general change in your diet, not only increasing the amount of calories. and you would also have been conscious of what you where eating so automatically your diet was more controlled, and maybe being more aware of your diet would also have given you a attitude change towards physical activities, such as biking perhaps a little more vigorously rather than the bike just being a sad alternative to a Ferrari.

Well, the Scandinavian reply is that Joshua is lying to himself and is forcing down a couple of packs of Oreos alongside every meal. Is that true Joshua?

Bingo, or maybe he isn't eating a couple of packs of Oreos.

Or actually you can read the answer in Joshua's initial post. He gains weight when he eats fatty food (high energy) and he does not when he eats a less fatty diet. Why people around him does not gain weight from being on the same diet, well, maybe they just don't eat as much as he thinks. In order to compare, you would need to eat exactly the same amounts.

Joshua also says in his initial post the the amount of exercise is the same, but it's impossible to change from one part of the world to another without habits changing. Maybe use of bike vs. subway has changed. Maybe the store selling Oreos is closer by his home. Maybe his heart-rate is generally lower due to slower walking speeds in China compared to back home. The number of parameters are too many to be able to conclude anything.

[realmayo]

The number of parameters are too many to be able to conclude anything.

Certainly agree with that and it's probably the reason why the whole area of diet in general is so uncertain.

[thenimblethief]

Mmmmm.....from what I have heard from Joshua today, the heat has been probably sweating the weight off of him during the night. ha ha! Xiamen seemed to be showing up between 85 - 90F at around 4am this morning your time.

[frankwall]

I also believe that compared to western Europeans for example, the Chinese drink less beer. This can really contribute to weight gain as well.

[liuzhou]

I'm still trying to find these super slim people. I was downtown this afternoon and sat for a few minutes to rest my weary bones. This was in the main shopping pedestrian street. I'd say about 80% of the people I saw were overweight. A few nastily so.

And I'm in the south, where the locals are meant to be smaller and slimmer.

It's nonsense.

I also believe that compared to western Europeans for example, the Chinese drink less beer.

That did amuse me.

[pancake]

I have put on a lot of weight in China. I attribute this to

1) 东北 food is very fatty.

2) I used to be an avid runner. Alas, the smokestacks of Harbin put an end to that particular habit.

So it turns out that if you change your lunch habit from, say, having a salad (without dressing) to suddenly gorging on 锅包肉...and stop running 8 miles (5 times a week) at a brisk pace...you might actually put on some weight. Who knew?

[Scandinavian]

I'm still trying to find these super slim people. I was downtown this afternoon and sat for a few minutes to rest my weary bones. This was in the main shopping pedestrian street. I'd say about 80% of the people I saw were overweight. A few nastily so.

On the other hand, it's easy to find the larger people. E.g. go to a McDonalds and you can see who comes there regularly. I do think the super slim people are there, e.g. several of the people working in the community I live in, who do jobs such as gardening and cleaning, they seem pretty slim. Probably a mix between not having the highest salary and also having a job where they are actually very active, unlike the people standing still at the entrances, they seem pretty well fed.

[liuzhou]

On the other hand, it's easy to find the larger people.

Because they are more of them!

And it's always easier to find larger objects than smaller ones.

go to a McDonalds

Not if they paid me.

I do think the super slim people are there

But in a minority.

[WestTexas]

Ehh I work at a college and I can say that the majority of my students would be considered 'skinny' in the United States. In each class of 30-40 students, one or two would be considered 'chubby' in the United States (ie, fat here) and another 4-5 would be considered chubby here, but average in the US. Honestly, and I'm being 100% serious, I believe I have had 1 student who would be considered obese in the entire three years I've worked in China. Total, I've probably had upwards of 800 students.

In the town where I work, I see plenty of heavy-set men with beer guts, but not really anyone overweight other than that. I see an obese person maybe once a month. They stick out because there are so few of them.

I do teach English majors at a mostly girl school, so my students are 95% girls. Each class has 0-3 boys and 25-40 girls.

[liuzhou]

Well, if you are going to extrapolate from a sub-section which is more likely to be slimmer than average, of course you will get skewed results.

Students eat less (too poor, too busy) and (are required to) do more exercise. Just wait to see them five or six years after they graduate and in the case of the girls, have their babies.

But, you have hit one pertinent point.

would be considered 'skinny' in the United States

Looking at things from the point of view of the fattest nation on the planet, you may perceive that all Chinese are skinny (a very subjective term).

However, looking from an objective, medically defined point of view, they aren't all skinny at all. And the situation is getting worse year by year. I've sat here in China for the last fifteen years and literally seen them get bigger.

[WestTexas]

Just wait to see them five or six years after they graduate and in the case of the girls, have their babies.

I keep getting older and they stay the same age.