more info about wuhan?

[pancake]

I don't understand. You speak Cantonese yet want to go to Wuhan? Surely Hong Kong or Guangzhou (if you really want to go to the mainland) would be more logical choices? I don't understand this compulsion to learn mandarin: you already speak a perfectly 'dialect' of Chinese! (I'm jealous, by the way. I think Cantonese sounds very cool.)

Personally, if I were to some day move to, say, Canada I sure as hell wouldn't choose Quebec...

EDIT: But to be perfectly honest, it sounds like most of your problems could be solved by 1) moving somewhere more cosmopolitan and 2) make some effort to integrate into your host country i.e. leave Chinatown. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that "being white" is this magical shield from all kinds of prejudice and discrimination. It is not.

[外国赤佬]

Wuhan is in the process of big renovations. Almost everywhere, old buildings are in the process of being replaced with the new ones, there's also a subway under construction. So it's very polluted at the moment. Most of the people from Wuhan that I know don't really like their hometown. Take it as you want.

If you want to learn Standard Chinese, then Wuhan is also not a very good choice. People from the Hubei/Hunan provinces often have a thick accent and trouble distinguishing between n/l, h/f, n/ng, zh/z, sh/s, ch/c etc.

[abcdefg]

As this thread has developed, it has become obvious to all of us that lots of issues are actually on the table here beyond the suitability of Wuhan as a place to live.

[realmayo]

For what it's worth, as someone who has lived in Wuhan for a few years: a brief stay gives you an unvarnished taste of a modern, relentless, uncompromising, urban Chinese environment. In itself, that's not the nicest of environments on the planet. If you look at what distinguishes big Chinese cities from each other, you'd look for the plus points: there must be some good points about, say, Beijing that are fairly unique to Beijing that contribute towards people enjoying that city. Same for Shanghai. You could look at the lake and quality of life as plus points for Hangzhou. The supposedly slightly easier pace of life in Chengdu. The weather and multi-cultural (?) side of things in Kunming. The buzz of Shenzhen. Etc etc.

However it's hard to say what good points really stand out for Wuhan. A big modern Chinese city with bad weather.

Of course if you're based there for a decent while, you get to know the city, get to know individuals, make friends, work out how to deal with the weather, work out how to get on with the locals, come to terms with the beautiful local dialect*, then it can be a really great place to be -- and the same must be true for lots of big cities in China.

But if you don't have that long-term view though, or don't have a decent base, and are hoping to touch down in your first Chinese city and come to terms with it quickly, then Wuhan doesn't really offer much of a crutch to help you get over the initial difficulties that some people from other countries find with life in Chinese cities. For someone with, say, friends there or a job lined up or a university place all sorted out, then you have that crutch to fall back on and you can deal with the city when you're ready for it. But without, it may be more of a culture shock than you will find easy to deal with.

*ok it's an acquired taste.

[civic94]

I don't understand. You speak Cantonese yet want to go to Wuhan? Surely Hong Kong or Guangzhou (if you really want to go to the mainland) would be more logical choices? I don't understand this compulsion to learn mandarin: you already speak a perfectly 'dialect' of Chinese! (I'm jealous, by the way. I think Cantonese sounds very cool.)

I actually also can speak 台山话, its a funnier sounding vairant of cantonese, so i already know 2 dialects. many overseas chinese in america came from that one town, its amazing, i picked it up since i was a child since many of my friends parents speak that. I only wished i picked up mandarin. 台山话, ususally people from hk and GZ would laugh at the people speaking it becuase its deeper tone, and it sounds uneducated, but in reality, tons of people from hk and gz have ancestors from there, but they deny it.

the reason i want to go to a city that at least speak mandarin, is i want to learn it. who knows in 10, 20 years that china becomes better? and with cantonese only being useful and a handful of areas around the world, i think its dying out sooner or later, which is sad. I do feel that mandarin is much easier to learn than cantonese, I wish china's national language is cantonese so I dont have to relearn, but its easier to teach some areas of china a new dialect that most of china.

also, If I do encounter a situation where some people speak mandarin and see that i cant, I will just say im from guangdong province, and speak cantonese / broken mandarin to them, and just tell them Im not educated because i ahve no money would that work guys?

If you want to learn Standard Chinese, then Wuhan is also not a very good choice. People from the Hubei/Hunan provinces often have a thick accent and trouble distinguishing between n/l, h/f, n/ng, zh/z, sh/s, ch/c etc.

i think everyone has an accent. my mom has a cantonese accent when speaking mandarin. english in america is an accent from the british english. chineses-vietamese from vietnam that come to the states have a accent when speaking cantonese. chinese people from china have an accent when speaking english. I also have a funny chinese accent when speaking english if i speak very fast. forigners have a english accent of mandarin if they speak mandarin. my point? all i care is if i can understand what people are talking about, i dont care about accent. they can laugh all they want, but I would love to learn my 3rd dialect of chinese.

[imron]

I will just say im from guangdong province, and speak cantonese / broken mandarin to them, and just tell them Im not educated because i ahve no money would that work guys?

Probably not. It never worked for any of the other ABCs I knew who spoke Cantonese but not Mandarin.

[civic94]

Probably not. It never worked for any of the other ABCs I knew who spoke Cantonese but not Mandarin.

lol i guess that worked in the past/older generation. none of my grandparents from both sides spoke mandarin, my dad and a couple of uncles cant speak mandarin. they told me that during that time they cant afford to go to school, and worked in the farm. and of course, the local dialect is used in the villages. I guess now for a person thats in their 20's to 30's, theres enough mandarin channels on tv in china + schools now offer up to the 9th grade for free, so i assume most younger folks know mandarin, or at least 50% fluent.

[tooironic]

I agree with @realmayo. Wuhan is not the greatest place to live - huge and spread out, poor public transport and infrastructure, fickle weather and full of bugs to boot. You may wish to try some of the other cities suggested.

[civic94]

I agree with @realmayo. Wuhan is not the greatest place to live - huge and spread out, poor public transport and infrastructure, fickle weather and full of bugs to boot. You may wish to try some of the other cities suggested.

wow.. i guess it is bad if everyone says so. the only thing i can see is from videos, and most of the time its always sugarcoated to show only the good things. how about changsha? the other cities i searched- yantai- too small for me, and nanning, too hot for me.

and of course, the bigs- gz, beijing, shanghai, i would avoid it.

[外国赤佬]

Changsha is not too different from Wuhan, just poorer.

Tianjin, Xi'an, Qingdao, Xiamen are all great places to live.

[feihong]

@civic94

Can you read and write? Sorry if you already mentioned this. I think this is an important point, because if you are on your own in a Chinese city you will have some difficulty dealing with certain things if you can't read Chinese. It might be a good idea to go to a city where you have native speaker contacts who can help you out.

Also, you've said that you might just teach English when you get there. It's not a bad idea, but... you won't make much money doing it, unless you have teaching credentials. When competing with other foreigners for non-specialized English teaching jobs, you will lose out to the blond, blue-eyed guy every time, even if his native language is not English. Going to a less expensive city like Wuhan won't help you out that much in this regard.

One way to counteract the low-wage effect for Asian-looking foreign teachers is to set everything up before you get to China (i.e. before they get to discriminate against you). I look 100% Chinese, and I went through a program set up by Purdue University. I applied, interviewed, and was accepted for the job completely in the States. I'm sure the Chinese school I went to was disappointed that I didn't meet their "physical requirements", but they couldn't do anything about it because they would've damaged their relationship with Purdue if they rejected me.

I actually disagree with other posters who keep pooh-poohing Wuhan in favor of other cities. I don't think it really matters which city you go to, you'll probably learn and experience quite a lot no matter which city you go to. On the other hand, I think you're far too biased against Shanghai, Beijing, and the other big cities.

[tooironic]

They are good points @feihong, but I have to agree with @realmayo that if you're coming to China for the first time you're better off choosing a city that has at least some redeeming features for someone who cannot speak putonghua nor (apparently?) read/write Chinese. That's not pooh-poohing, it's just being realistic. I'm not saying you have to go to a five-star international hotel in Shanghai, but you could at least pick a city that is reasonably comfortable to live and work in. Kunming, Nanjing, Qingdao, Dalian, Xi'an, Changsha, etc. spring to mind.

[anonymoose]

How is Changsha any better than Wuhan?

[feihong]

@tooironic

Yes, you're probably right. I retract the "pooh-poohing" argument. Someone who hasn't been to China before should stick to the more accessible locales on their first visit.

[realmayo]

How is Changsha any better than Wuhan?

Yes, I'm puzzled by this too. I don't think Wuhan is bad, just that it doesn't give you much help when you first arrive unlike cities which are smaller, quieter, or have more 'Western' areas. I personally really like Wuhan, have had some great times there and always felt extremely comfortable and at ease in the city. But in the particular case of the OP, who appears to be headed to China with no concrete plans about what he's going to do there, my suggestion is he needs a place which is less "difficult" than a typical big Chinese city.

[civic94]

Yes, I'm puzzled by this too. I don't think Wuhan is bad, just that it doesn't give you much help when you first arrive unlike cities which are smaller, quieter, or have more 'Western' areas. I personally really like Wuhan, have had some great times there and always felt extremely comfortable and at ease in the city. But in the particular case of the OP, who appears to be headed to China with no concrete plans about what he's going to do there, my suggestion is he needs a place which is less "difficult" than a typical big Chinese city.

its going to be me and a friend. i speak cantonese, toishanese while my friend speaks fujianese, cantonese, and mandarin. he can read and write. our plans have been stated before. were going to save up money, live there, and experience it. if we find a job, then each of us will decide what to do. I have a BA and just want to explore, dont care about climbing a ladder at work just yet. he cant finish his degree so hes just taking a break.

as far as getting a wife, we are extremely careful as both of us saw how many of our friends's parents have loveless marriages, we seen much older husbands with wives that come for a better life, and we seen 2-5 years younger husbands that come because the women has a chance to come to america. in all, its all about who has the upper hand. and most of the time when they come here, they figure out how much of a loser the husband is working in a restaurant, and some chinese go to food banks and live poor, while when they go to china they act as kings. I seen too much of this when I went back to china @ 10 yrs old.

were more americanized so love is more important. and of course, the first thing we going to do when we arrive is eat those pulled noodles, it looks so damn good on youtube . and of course, real spicy sichuan food in sichuan.

[yang zhao]

actually i like wuhan.i have been there twice. their chinese learning classes is good. if i dont rememeber it wrong, actualy two of the wuhan universities have been on the Top 10 chinese learning programmes

[civic94]

thanks yang zhao. my mandarin is getting a little bit better. before I actually cared and learned mandarin, just by watching the mandarin news, i can catch about 10-15% of the words, since cantonese and mandarin have quite some overlap between them. now i feel that I can understand about 50% of a normal conversation, but i cant speak it correctly.

the news, i can say im at about 25% or so. 15% is from the overlap with cantonese and the other 10 is what i learned. I will be extremely happy if I can get to about 80% understanding in normal conversations, and if i learn the rest in china, i will be golden.