Applying for a tourist visa in SE Asia given current regulations

[TomThomas]

Hi,

I have previously studied in China and my resident permit in my old passport has recently expired. I have been working in Vietnam since late last year and only got my student visa (residence permit) extended to "keep it alive" and because I was doing some business in China and went for a job interview there in the meantime.

I've now been offered a job in Kunming. The job is a professional position that will require significant regional travel as I will be managing many of the company's regional operations. The company claims that they have a relationship with the PSB and telephoned them to enquire about the requirements for obtaining a work visa (or actually, a residence permit valid for working) for me.

I was told that I should obtain a tourist visa first and that they would convert it into a residence permit valid for the purpose of work in Kunming. I'm not sure that this will work since I was told a "Z" visa is required first. However, my sponsor (who I have known personally for 3 years and I consider to be a close family friend) keeps insisting that all I need to do is arrive on a tourist visa and then the company can take care of the rest.

In any case, there are new visa regulations in place (at least for now) that mean it has become harder to apply for a tourist visa especially in a foreign country. I am currently in Thailand and have been told that it's quite difficult to even apply for a Chinese tourist visa in Bangkok especially as I am here on a tourist visa. The fact that I previously worked here is not really relevant, but my main concerns lie with all the new requirements and the fact that the embassy may not want to issue such a visa to me. It turns out that even foreigners living and working in Thailand have been granted Chinese tourist visas that are only valid for a short duration rather than the full 30 days or so they are supposed to get.

I'd rather the company issue the paperwork required for the "Z" visa, indicating that I will apply in Bangkok. Then there should be no problems.

But...could anyone with recent experience, preferably since August 1 please let me know their experiences in applying for a tourist (or work) visa in any of the following cities with Chinese embassies or consulates: Bangkok, Chiang Mai (Thailand), Vientiane (Laos), Ho Chi Minh City (Vietnam), Yangon (Myanmar) or Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia).

If there is good feedback from one of these cities, I will consider applying there rather than in Bangkok. The feedback I have read from Bangkok has mostly been a little on the negative side.

For the tourist visa, my sponsor could also send documents such as a letter of invitation and possibly a letter stating I will reside at her place (I won't since the company will pay for an apartment for me and give me a car for personal use but the letter would just be used to satisfy the consular officials) and I'd be able to provide an itinerary with flight details. However, I'd personally not have to go down that route if necessary. Since I have previous Chinese visas in my passports including residence permits I would think that I wouldn't have to provide all the documents that other first-time applicants do, but I could be wrong.

If all else fails, I will fedex my passport back home to Australia, where someone could apply for the visa on my behalf, and then have it sent back to me in Thailand while I wait.

Any experiences/advice etc.?

[abcdefg]

Though I have not been in your exact situation, I still have a couple thoughts and suggestions.

I was told that I should obtain a tourist visa first and that they would convert it into a residence permit valid for the purpose of work in Kunming. I'm not sure that this will work since I was told a "Z" visa is required first. However, my sponsor (who I have known personally for 3 years and I consider to be a close family friend) keeps insisting that all I need to do is arrive on a tourist visa and then the company can take care of the rest.

It's entirely possible that your sponsor is honest but just not up to date on the latest regulations. The route she is suggesting you take is not the appropriate one. I would be firm in asking for the necessary paperwork to apply for a work visa and work residence permit. She needs to jump through the hoops, not leave it all up to you. As you are aware, your future employer also needs to specify the foreign city in which you will applying. Things tightened up in mid-August.

I'd rather the company issue the paperwork required for the "Z" visa, indicating that I will apply in Bangkok. Then there should be no problems.

Agree with you 100% on that. This is definitely the way to go.

Since I have previous Chinese visas in my passports including residence permits I would think that I wouldn't have to provide all the documents that other first-time applicants do, but I could be wrong.

I'd suggest being prepared to provide full documentation, just as though you were a first time applicant. The "climate" now is not good for China visas (just before the 18th National People's Congress and selection of new leaders.)

If all else fails, I will fedex my passport back home to Australia, where someone could apply for the visa on my behalf, and then have it sent back to me in Thailand while I wait.

That should work as a last resort.

Best of luck in your new job and welcome to Kunming.

[TomThomas]

Thanks a lot for your responses. I will try talking with my sponsor again and insist they send the paperwork so I can arrive on a work visa. Even if I can get myself a tourist visa (this shouldn't be a big problem despite current regulations, but it might just mean I have to send my passport to Australia if I can't get a visa locally in Thailand), I could still be told to leave the country [China] again to apply for a work visa in Bangkok (or another city). So that would make the whole tourist visa exercise a waste of time and money since I would then have wasted money not only on the visa but also on the air ticket to Kunming and back. There is nothing I can do for them so far as they need to apply on my behalf using the documents that companies are required to send to the various ministries/government departments that gives them permission to hire foreign workers. Therefore, there is no point that I show up with the wrong visa. I'd rather have the right visa and go there once, even if it means I have to wait a month longer as it would come to that anyway if I am told to leave to get a work visa.

The thing is, right now I might need their help even to get a tourist visa. So given that, I don't see why they can't just send the extra paperwork for me to apply for a "Z" visa. It would be good to get some idea if they are right about still being able to convert a tourist visa to a residence permit for work in Kunming despite the current political climate. If anyone has recent experience, that would help me decide what to do. Right now I'm reluctant to book any flights because there is no guarantee of anything.

[abcdefg]

I wish I had recent personal experience with doing this to give you, but I don't. Maybe someone else here does and will respond.

I've seen three basic scenarios with this process:

1. The company has a lot of experience with hiring foreigners and really does have something "wired" on the inside at the various local agencies that allows them to do (via guanxi) what would otherwise be difficult or impossible.

2. The company doesn't have much experience with doing this, but thinks it will work the same way today that it did 3 or 4 or 5 years ago.

3. The company is being dishonest and trying to get you to to come work illegally on a tourist visa. This is most often seen with smaller, private training schools offering English teaching jobs, and I doubt it's the case in your situation.

I can appreciate that you want to show this new employer you have a good attitude and are a "can do" guy by taking care of visa matters with as little stress on their part as possible. If you do decide to obtain a tourist visa and just hope things work out well later as promised, the best way, from all I have heard, is to send your passport to Australia yourself, staying outside China while it is processed. You are likely to get more favorable visa terms in your home country (such as longer duration of each stay) than if you apply from a SE Asian China consulate.

[TomThomas]

Thanks for the advice. Looks like I will send my passport back home for processing because even now, it's possible to get a 1-year multiple entry tourist visa with a 60-day stay each time if I apply back home. I believe Americans applying back in the states get a similar deal. This means that if my company can indeed do what they promised, there'll be more time to convert my visa than if I arrived on a standard 30-day tourist visa.

Since this could take a little while, I will hold off on booking flights to Kunming until I have a visa in my passport. I was originally thinking of arriving around the 5th of October, but this will probably need to be pushed back until mid-October or so. Another issue are the upcoming holidays including the mid-autumn festival and the national day holidays, hence delaying things further.

[abcdefg]

Sounds like a workable plan. (I'm assuming you mean you will send your passport back to Australia for the visa while you are staying in Thailand.) Hope all the pieces fall into place smoothly.

[roddy]

To be honest, if someone I trusted was telling me that they had spoken to the PSB and were sure they could handle the L > working permit conversion, I'd probably be happy with that. It is possible, it just depends on how they handle things locally. I'd be a bit dubious if I was the first foreigner the company had employed though, as they would be more likely to hit unexpected snags.

Obtaining Z visas are a bit more expense and hassle - it's none too surprising if people try to work round that. If you were a China newbie heading for a private teaching job in some random third-tier city I'd be warning you off, but you've been to China before, and you're heading for a job with people you trust.

That, of course, all depends on you getting the L visa in the first place. To that end, I'd look particularly at Chiang Mai They've got a record of handing out two 90 day stays without asking any questions - not sure if that still happens. And they're just up the road, and there are also some flights from Chiang Mai to Kunming in the summer (or there used to be), which might be handy.

[TomThomas]

@abcdefg, yes I would be staying in Thailand while I wait for my visa if I end up sending my passport back home for visa processing.

@roddy, thanks for the tip regarding Chiang Mai. I might just end up applying there as I will have to go there anyway beginning of next month. I believe that there are some new restrictions even there though, but probably all of these measures are just temporary. However, I can't wait for them to become less strict as that could take a few months - I would like to start my new job sometime towards the middle or end of next month. I read on the China travel guide website that the Chinese embassy in Bangkok and consulates in Chiang Mai would like to see either an invitation from someone in China OR an air ticket and accommodation. I am choosing the former, since I will be staying in private accommodation paid for by my sponsor and the fewer documents they need to see, the better.

Flights from Chiang Mai to Kunming are no longer offered by THAI, but China Eastern has a 4 or 5 times weekly service on a CRJ jet I believe.