Captivity in a Chinese prison (detention center)

[Ruben von Zwack]

I find the story interesting just as it is. I prefer simple storys over larger-than-life-drama.

[Kobo-Daishi]

I find the whole story dubious.

There are wholes everywhere.

Alreadytaken wrote:

Every detainee I've met at least spent 3-4 months in jail, the longest being 3 years, a murder suspect awaiting his final appeal.

A death row inmate, I assume he's on death row since he's awaiting his "final appeal", is incarcerated with an inmate who hasn't been charged yet?

He won't even say why he was taken into custody in the first place.

Unfurling a banner promoting Falun Dafa?

Distributing Bibles without a license?

Soliciting a minor?

Marijuana possession?

Just because these acts are legal in the US doesn't mean they are in all countries.

OK, the minor bit might not be, but, I understand a lot of prostitutes in the US are underage. And prostitution is illegal in all states except for Nevada.

In the 60s, Mick Jagger was sentenced to 3 years for possession of 4 amphetamine tablets he had bought in Italy where it was a legal over-the-counter medication. He was arrested in Britain where the drug was a controlled substance. Does that make Britain a "lawless society"?

Okay, Mick actually only served one day in prison. And this was real prison not just jail where he also served one day before receiving bail.

Keith was sentenced to 1 year for allowing marijuana in his house.

Public opinion including an editorial by London's The Times got the convictions overturned. Keith's conviction was overturned for lack of evidence. Mick was given a conditional discharge.

In 1980, Paul McCartney spent 10 days in a Tokyo jail for possession of 8 ounces of cannabis. He spent much of the time doing what the original poster did.

Is Japan a "lawless society" just because marijuana is legal in the US? Okay, it's legal under state statutes in some states, but, according to the federal government it still is illegal. Though they don't actively enforce it.

Now, Jagger and McCartney are both knights.

What did the original poster expect? A Club Med experience?

Pumping iron all day long?

What he got was bad food, boring soap operas, and having to do some chores like washing the toilet and stuff.

Reminds me of the navy or a mother nagging a kid to do some spring cleaning.

He was lucky he wasn't made someone's bitch.

Kobo.

[heifeng]

Sounds like the book I read: 《中国式看守所》, but there wasn't a naptime in that one as far as I remember. The main character's offense was also 'unbelievable'.

It's actually a good (reference?) book to read. Introduction in Chinese & brief summary in English

[fanglu]

I find the whole story dubious.

I don't. It fits with what experts (Chinese and foreign) say about the Chinese justice system - that it doesn't follow its own rules, and that even when followed these rules are pretty dubious. For example, the fact that he was treated as a Chinese citizen despite not being one according to Chinese law (his Chinese citizenship was automatically lost when he gained US citizenship), and that he was held on remand for months and then when finally tried given a suspended sentence.

As to the point about the murderer, you're right that a murderer would not normally be held in a detention centre if he was 'awaiting his final appeal'. I suspect the OP misunderstood the situation. Or alternatively, maybe there was no space in the prison the murderer was supposed to be in, so he was moved to the detention centre, or maybe his family bribed someone. Who knows?

To the OP: Did you look into getting bail (取保候审)? Was it not available because you had a foreign passport and so were considered a flight risk?

[Kobo-Daishi]

Fanglu wrote:

I don't. It fits with what experts (Chinese and foreign) say about the Chinese justice system - that it doesn't follow its own rules, and that even when followed these rules are pretty dubious.

Precisely, it's like he just took any of the other accounts found on the Internet and he just inserted himself into the narrative.

Nothing unique about it.

He won't even say what he was taken into custody for.

Was it so unique that he'd be immediately identified from it?

Or is he the only Chinese-American ever to be arrested in Shenzhen?

If so then they already know his identity from that, so, what's the harm in telling us what the offense was?.

There was nothing cruel or inhumane from what he wrote of daily life in detention.

Without knowledge of what the infraction of law was, there is no way to judge whether a miscarriage of justice was committed.

Kobo.

[heifeng]

Here is what I'd like to know, details about how you obtained your CLOTHING, if you had an account to use to (or if you could) make purchases, etc.., and, did you (or your family) hire a lawyer?

[Kobo-Daishi]

Fanglu wrote:

As to the point about the murderer, you're right that a murderer would not normally be held in a detention centre if he was 'awaiting his final appeal'. I suspect the OP misunderstood the situation. Or alternatively, maybe there was no space in the prison the murderer was supposed to be in, so he was moved to the detention centre, or maybe his family bribed someone. Who knows?

Oh, yeah.

Let's try to make up our own suggestions to help the guy fill the holes in his narrative.

Kobo.

[Kobo-Daishi]

Heifeng wrote:

Here is what I'd like to know, details about how you obtained your CLOTHING, if you had an account to use to (or if you could) make purchases, etc.., and, did you (or your family) hire a lawyer?

Don't they issue prison uniforms? Like stripes in Elvis' Jailhouse Rock, or with arrows in Benny Hill comedies?

In America, I guess it's now orange jumpsuits. Can't picture Elvis sliding down a pole in one of those though.

Kobo.

[heifeng]

Well, that's why I'm waiting on the answer to see how it matches or doesn't match up with what I've previously heard from 'sources' about what goes on...the suspense builds. Was he in his street clothes during his detention? was he forced to go commando during his whole stint?! Was there a need for qiuku in the colder months? How did he acquire these items? 'Enquiring' minds want to know....

[Lu]

What do Mick Jagger et al have to do with a Chinese prison experience? And sure this is not a spectacular unique account, but I for one find it interesting to read. Perhaps I'm an exception here, but I don't read accounts of Chinese prison life every day. I don't necessarily believe everything I read on the internet, but so far it all seems believable enough and it is nice that the OP comes back to answer questions. So OP, please do continue.

[roddy]

What do Mick Jagger et al have to do with a Chinese prison experience?

Nothing at all. Kobo, there's no need to keep rambling on once you've made your point.

[GotJack]

Personally I found this an interesting article. In terms of knowing why the person was in the detention centre, I have to agree, I am intrigued to know. I do respect the authors choice not to reveal though however.

I'm a little surprised at some of the hostility (thats how it appears to me, not necessarily intended) some others have shown though. The challenging of aspects of the narrative ie "There are wholes everywhere" I don't see as particularly relevant criticism.

Please continue alreadytaken, I for one am enjoying your posts!

[Kobo-Daishi]

Lu wrote:

What do Mick Jagger et al have to do with a Chinese prison experience?

Just that he was saying China was a "lawless society" and I was just pointing out that Jagger was sentenced to 3 years for 4 amphetamine tablets that were legally purchased in Italy. What is permissable in one society might not be in another.

That McCartney was jailed for 10 days in Tokyo and treated more or less as the original poster. Washing floors. Any more inhumane?

Now would anyone say 1960s Great Britain was a "lawless society" or 1980s Japan?

If the original poster was genuinely jailed (highly doubtful), it might have been a personal hell for him, but, without daily beatings, water boarding, etc. I don't see the inhumaneness of washing out toilets.

Maybe reports out of Abu Ghraib and Gitmo have jaded me.

Kobo.

[Kobo-Daishi]

Gotjack wrote:

"There are wholes everywhere"

Oh, yeah. I picked up my small error there but didn't bother going back to edit. I did use the right "hole" when writing "Let's try to make up our own suggestions to help the guy fill the holes in his narrative." though.

And it's "dual citizenship" not "due citizenship".

Kobo.

[roddy]

Ah, he's playing the old "make up a story and leave out the interesting bits" game, and you are the only once clever enough to spot it. Well done, Internet detective. Extra points for the reference to 1960s UK case law.

Anyway, are we getting another (hopefully more exciting) installment today?

[Angelina]

Why did I get negative feedback?

[roddy]

You didn't get any from me, but I imaging it's because you seem to suggest the guy shouldn't have bothered posting what most of us found interesting. Plus, deciding to post it doesn't mean he's obsessed and failing to move on (although it does seem a bit like that).

[Angelina]

I didn't mean to say that he shouldn't have posted here. He wrote out of therapeutic reasons. That's fine. I just think that once he posted, it's better for him to move on.

He didn't say what was unique to his experience. He criticized the Chinese legal system without any evidence to support his claim. There was a similar account somewhere else on the Internet, reddit probably. Someone offered to tell his story, hoping to make a career out of his experience.

BTW I'm not into sensational stories

[WestTexas]

He criticized the Chinese legal system without any evidence to support his claim.

What evidence is he supposed to have?

He didn't say what was unique to his experience.

And...? You're treating this like it's in the New York Times or something. He doesn't need evidence, he's just posting about his experience, something people on internet forums tend to do.

For example, I was thinking of making a topic about how I have food poisoning right now. Many people living in China have experienced this. Would I post statistics about food safety in China? Should I take a picture of my toilet to provide evidence? No. Of course not. I'm not sure why you're applying some sort of weird journalistic standard to a post on a forum.

I downvoted you because your post came off as insensitive. After OP was imprisoned, possibly wrongfully, for four months, your reply is:

It was an unpleasant experience, so what.

In fact, I dug up my password after not posting for several months just to neg you because your post so horribly offended me.

[adrianlondon]

Just FYI, conversation is happening in parallel:

http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=640886